To-Do List

• [Kathe] Write recap, start 'formulation' topic discussions on the loomio thread for this agenda

• [flancian] respond to thread about accessibility day with counter-proposals

• [flancian] experiment with embedding loomio/nextcloud in the wiki

• [flancian] publish announcement for participatory finances once we get that

• [Matt/Eduardo] Make new proposal about post length: Let's try [1,000 characters] for [six] months on safe/good enough basis with survey of user experience. 

• [Matt] set up sample OC comp log based on CWG model

• [Marie] Agenda create - note to copy the TODO list, reminder

• [Caitlin] participatory budgeting process announcement (with Flan's help)

Dear All,

Here is the agenda for the next meeting, as well as the to-do list. In yellow are the non-recurring items to be consented to/built together at the start of the meeting.

I'll be sending a reminder for the meeting on Monday 20 May.

Have a good new week!

@MarieVC (social.coop/MarieVC) I like to think of this as ALL the agenda being consented to at the start of the meeting. Maybe the yellow highlights are particularly tentative?

@Kathe TB Yes. The parts in yellow are a reminder of potential topics (work in progress), to keep track of them and are to be consented together at the start of the meeting. It's more to get an overview of the ongoing discussions. Does this help you with the preparation for the meeting or do you see another solution that would suit you better?

https://share.mayfirst.org/s/g88mfEWNaPdgr7G

Eduardo and I drafted something, then I dropped the ball. In the meantime a decision was reached that was along the lines of what we intended: https://www.loomio.com/p/pBE07hyi/changing-the-character-limit-to-1000

Notes

1200 [5 min] ADMIN

• Who is here? Matt, Kathe, Marie, Eduardo, Caitlin

• Does anyone need to leave early? Eduardo in one hour

• Confirm our next call on 4 June (Tuesday) 1200 UTC

  • Matt farming sched. --> change OC meetings to Weds.

  • Wed 5 June 1200 UTC

• Review recap from last call https://www.loomio.com/d/EVT5dfyO/organizing-circle-meeting-2024-7-may-tuesday-1200-utc

• Who is note taking? Matt

• Who is facilitating? Kathe

1205 [10 min] Check in:

• How are you showing up today? What are you bringing into the space? [https://www.nycnvc.org/feelings]

• Icebreaker question: What does your perfect breakfast look like? Explain why.

1215 [10 min] Agenda construction (potential items, topics discussed at previous meetings, work in progress):

• expanding representation in OC from the working groups from one to two members https://www.loomio.com/d/EVT5dfyO/organizing-circle-meeting-2024-7-may-tuesday-1200-utc/7

• annual patterns of strategic topics https://www.loomio.com/d/EVT5dfyO/organizing-circle-meeting-2024-7-may-tuesday-1200-utc/9

• compensation logs w/ how to encourage working members to take pay https://share.mayfirst.org/s/g88mfEWNaPdgr7G and  https://www.loomio.com/d/EVT5dfyO/organizing-circle-meeting-2024-7-may-tuesday-1200-utc/5

• other backlog items

1225 [15 min] Updates: What is the status of your to-do items? Can someone help you?

• [Kathe] Write recap, start 'formulation' topic discussions on the loomio thread for this agenda - Question: How did the discussion topic threds go? Did you see them? What could encourage more engagement?

  • https://www.loomio.com/d/EVT5dfyO/organizing-circle-meeting-2024-7-may-tuesday-1200-utc/4

  • Eduardo - didn't see it

    • hard to follow Loomio - where things are found, need to understand Loomio architecture

  • Marie - have been creating a new thread for each meeting, so you can check the upcoming meeting agenda thread (which includes links to previous threads)

    • when threads are long we are losing information

    • where to put discussion topics

  • Caitlin - separate thread for each topic to discuss, meeting agenda as separate thread only for additions/changes to agenda

  • Marie - okay to try moving discussion topics to new separate threads, key is to not lose content

  • Matt - how much do we want to do asynchronously? Time required? Only action items? Also discussions?

  • OUTCOME: Topics will be pulled out as seperate threads moving forward

  • TOPICS to discuss further: information architecture, Loomio use

• [flancian] respond to thread about accessibility day with counter-proposals

• [flancian] experiment with embedding loomio/nextcloud in the wiki

• [flancian] publish announcement for participatory finances once we get that

• [Matt/Eduardo] Make new proposal about post length: Let's try 1,000 characters for six months on safe/good enough basis with survey of user experience. 

  • Proposal passed on Loomio

  • OC should stay on top of 6 month review and survey

• [Matt] set up sample OC comp log based on CWG model

• [Marie] Agenda create - note to copy the TODO list, reminder

• [Caitlin] participatory budgeting process announcement (with Flan's help)

1240 [15 min] Updates from working circles

• Finance - No update

• Tech - Evan getting active in Tech

• Community - Still got the overwhelming white guy issue. Suggesting seperating Ops vs Community

  • how to separate/define the domains of the CWG and the Ops Team?

  • MayFirst as an example of how to engage people without overburdening?

    • maybe organize a conversation with MayFirst about member engagement/burden?

    • TO DO Matt start a discussion thread on Loomio to set up a convo with MayFirst

    • bilingual, transnational org

• Legal - defunct

1255 [5 min] Update: What was said by the group in active Loomio threads. Do we need to respond to anything or integrate something into our discussion?

• Character count proposal adopted

• Do people know how to contact OC?

  • Recap thread is public in Loomio

    • cross post in Mastodon?

• OC should make sure we revisit the character limit decision.

• Add this to existing Sept. revisit decisions published on our Wiki (https://wiki.social.coop/wiki/Governance)

• Triad of conversations (Garden/Stream, https://hapgood.us/2015/10/17/the-garden-and-the-stream-a-technopastoral/)

  • stream: Mastodon

  • in between: Loomio

  • permanent: Wiki documentation

  • (See also Mike Hales on Fediwiki https://mhtoolstack.wiki.cafe/view/toolstack)

1300 [20 min] Items to be consented at the start of the meeting

• compensation logs w/ how to encourage working members to take pay https://share.mayfirst.org/s/g88mfEWNaPdgr7G and  https://www.loomio.com/d/EVT5dfyO/organizing-circle-meeting-2024-7-may-tuesday-1200-utc/5

  • What do we want to compensate? (Meeting attendence, admin work)

  • Tax/legal implication in this informal structure. How does this play in different countries?

    • Some orgs (Open Food Network, e.g.) create country specific chapters

  • Giving back to SC is an option, needs to be accounted for

  • Tracking time is important

  • EU can't receive $ from US - money right now comes from UK - does that work for people in EU? In Argentina?

  • Larger question of compensation and contribution tracking (quality, experience, etc.), different principles, market rates vs solidarity rates

  • How is accounting done on SC?

    • Open Collective is where all transactions are recorded

      • QUESTION: How to record it when a person does not take a stipend as a contribution?

    • International transactions... [possibly use solidarius.net?]

  • Tax reporting

  • Working Groups decide what to do with their funds - stipends, etc.

  • Organizational sustainability -- to maintain this, need to track labor and infrastucture cost perspective.

  • Good to estabish this infrastructure

    • good to keep track of privilege (some people may need a stipend more than others)

    • good to visualize the instance operations and time/labor required

    • good for all to get same rate for stipend

  • Tech WG folks decided not to take stipends, so their budget is used for infrastructure

  • FWG has asked all WGs to take stipends -- unused stipends stay in SC budget (not transferable to individual WG budget)

  • Proposal: work up another template for tracking time, continue to talk about stipends, move this into Loomio thread, identify questions for FWG

    • keep it simple

    • ansynchronous discussion time spent not captured by meeting attendance proxy

  • TO DO Kathe will start Loomio thread

• expanding representation in OC from the working groups from one to two members https://www.loomio.com/d/EVT5dfyO/organizing-circle-meeting-2024-7-may-tuesday-1200-utc/7

1320 [5 min] Tasks: What are you taking out of this call as a task or todo item?

• [Kathe] Write recap, post recap to main forum, start topic driven loomio threads including: compensation, annual patterns, increasing WG representation in OC, wiki page

• [Marie] Agenda (+ deadlines for future discussions at the end/backlog), todo list, reminder

• [Matt/Eduardo] Matt start a discussion thread on Loomio to set up a convo with MayFirst on member engagement

1325 [5 min] Feedback: What worked well with this call and what could be improved? Explain why.

• convo going well, decentralized informal collectives often neglect compensation issue

• like the fact we are focussing and going deeper into a topic and trying to solve it

• distracting setting

• loved Eduardo's breakfast in bed ritual, and the way we are getting more coherent

Backlog items: The items below are not on the active agenda but should be addressed at some point in the future

• Communications: should there be a SC newsletter?? (like GEO newsletter)

• Long term strategy

  • How do we deal with liability as an organization? Do we need to consider some kind of incorporation or legal entity? If so where?

  • Strategically, how do we provide a framework for the Finance WG to budget overall and help manage surplus?

  • "Maintenance care", how to support TWG and its members (cf. xy crisis driven by single mantainer)

  • Compensation log

  • Offering bounties $ to support open source projects or coop efforts

• Short term proposal dev

  • Develop information flow and organizatoin

    • Triad of conversations (Garden/Stream, https://hapgood.us/2015/10/17/the-garden-and-the-stream-a-technopastoral/)

      • stream: Mastodon

      • in between: Loomio

      • permanent: Wiki documentation

  • How many people engage in what category/dimention?

  • Ask working groups for TWO reps instead of one.

  • Check in on group condition, engagement level, look at moving forward with (a)synchronous engagement

  • Loomio OC Group private/public https://www.loomio.com/d/Vt7LCaPM/using-loomio-for-our-group

  • Ask for training on 'what it means to be an admin' to orientate new admins

  • Annual patterns https://www.loomio.com/d/EVT5dfyO/organizing-circle-meeting-2024-7-may-tuesday-1200-utc/2

  • Contact Finance, and Community for joint meetings topic: How can we help?

Recap

Today we had brief updates from the working groups, checked in on the conclusion of the character limit Loomio discussion, and then talked through sense-making with the compensation/stipends.

Working group updates were brief, no new developments from Finance nor Community working groups. We didn't have a representative from tech reporting in. Community working group is still discussing the diversity issue. From this diversity and engagement discussion, we are going to investigate contacting MayFirst and see how they approached member engagement and collective governance.

Loomio threads: https://www.loomio.com/d/C4HKmTOa/proposal-to-revisit-extending-the-character-limit-for-posts/32 The character limit thread resolved without intervention from Operating Circle in alignment with how we were going to suggest. We are curious if folks want help tracking the re-evaluation deadline in 6 months. No other active threads were identified.

We decided to break off topical discussions from the agenda threads into their own threads on the Organizing Circle for better visibility. We will spin off threads on: compensation, annual patterns, increasing WG representation on OC, OC wiki page development, and conversation with MayFirst.

Compensation: For context, Finance Working Group has allotted a set amount of money for each working group for stipends or compensation. Working Groups decide how to allocate this amongst the members. At issue is a reluctance of people to actually draw those stipends. Some reasons that were discussed were: tax implications, difficulty moving money, and questions about valuing time vs experience. We generally recognized the value in tracking labor to support the operations of social coop as part of making the collective sustainable. We will revisit this topic next meeting and start a Loomio thread for asynchronous discussion.

Our meeting times are shifting to accommodate planting schedules. We will meet Wednesday June 5 at 1200UTC.