Basement Space Usage

Thanks for putting this together. I am unable to vote on this proposal for a few reasons:

1) There is nothing in this proposal that addresses the fact that BSC, H+, PPAC & S2S are storing things on the opposite side of the red line. From the wording as is, it sounds like all of us have to vacate the basement. I’d like clarity around that and would hope that there would be direct communication with the organizations.

2) Additionally, i’m waiting for any comments from Amelia, Jerone and David. I’m hoping that this proposal was discussed with the three of them before posting to the broader group as it directly impacts their practices.

Please vote against the proposal, Michelle, or to block it, so that you're current state of agreement or disagreement with what is on the proposal is recorded in your vote.

The written proposal was not discussed with Jerone, David, or Amelia. If this is a precondition for your agreement to any proposal, please vote against this proposal or vote to block it. The proposal is part of the discussion. The vote is part of the discussion. It's not a convo ender, it's a convo enricher.

Michelle, the allotment of the space and the issue of the basement has been discussed with Amelia, Jerone and David. Saks and I was asked to add our proposal on loomio which is what we did with the help of Patrick and Chris. The three racks that has been allotted does have the storage for BSC, H+, PPAC and S2S all before the red line. Thank you for bringing that up for clarity.

Can we add in the clarification that the 3 racks have been allotted for storage for PPAC and its members? Language that makes it clear that S2S, BSC and H+ still are able to store their items. S2S is storing wine and beer for future event. If I need to move that out, I can.

Hey everyone, I am not in the space, so I don't know what the "red line" actually means.It'd be useful to see a diagram. I am also finding the language in the proposal to be a bit formal and strict without space for collaboration. I recognize that this has been a conversation mostly with those whose practice is in the basement, but it does feel like some amount of context is missing. Really, I am not seeing the role of the broader cooperative in this proposal.

The reason I highlight this is the following:
Is the idea here that any anyone who is invited to be a member has to go through a second layer of "approval" for the basement? I understand that was the initial idea but what happens to the person who is invited for membership and then isn't "approved" to be in the basement?

Do they then need to take their practice to another floor? As I have said before, I do think that if the basement is a studio it should be protected in someway but I am at odds with the fact that someone is a member has to go through multiple layers of approval in order to move their own practice forward. I'd love your thoughts on that.

The red line is literally a red line painted on the floor.

I second this, Roz

I disagree pretty strongly with a physical red line on the floor of the basement. That sends a pretty strong signal and I understand that there is frustration about the original agreement made but I really don't understand how this solves it in keeping with our culture. I also want to note that the original agreement also mentioned that Sak's and Qinza would lead bringing new artists into the space as members. There is no mention in this proposal about a new member or resident plan. In fact, it feels pretty strongly against the idea of welcoming new people into a shared space. I understand that might not be the intention but that is how it feels to me as it's currently written. Although I agree wholeheartedly to honor space and protect the studio, I believe the proposal should still address some of the points above before moving forward.

Michelle, to answer your questions, Jerone and I have had discussions with Qinza about our space needs in the basement. But, we did not discuss this proposal.

I agree second Roz's and Michelle's points. I feel that the current way this is written, does not honor the fact that Prime Produce is cooperatively run and makes it seem as if only certain members are entitled to permanent space, with no room for future (or even current) member or residents to come in and share space (which is what are all about).

I do wish to protect the space as a studio/maker-space and I think it is amazing that we have this here. I do think it is good to set boundaries; but I believe this proposal should address some of Roz's, Michelle's and my points before moving forward. To my understanding, the original intention of the basement studio space was intended for multiple artists to share and use; I would also like to see a plan in place for how we will adjust for future artists that are brought on as members &/or residents.

My apologies for not adding much to this thread until now; for some reason I didn't see any of the new comments that had been added until I was alerted by email to Roz's and Amelia's most recent contributions. My understanding of the proposal is that, at the moment, the basement is "at capacity" for artists, with a total of 4 allotments (with Jerone and Amelia sharing one of them), and therefore no new artists would be brought into the space until one of the allotted spaces is vacated (or a future proposal is made). I agree that on this point the proposal should be clarified. Roz raises a good question about whether Saks and Qinza continue to have the authority to choose who gets one of the vacated allotments, and that too should be clarified. What continues to be lost in this conversation, for me, is that Saks and Qinza were allotted space at a certain point in time, and that apparently hasn't been honored. As far as I am aware, other members began to use basement space originally allotted to Saks and Qinza without any discussion, notice, request or vote. I'm not sure how that was in keeping with PP culture, and if my understanding of the history here is inaccurate or missing key pieces, I would love to have it corrected, amplified, modified, etc., because it's a big part of how I am looking at this proposal. So while I can understand and appreciate the concern that the cooperative spirit isn't being honored with the boundaries being proposed here, I don't see how that cooperative spirit was in action when additional people moved into the basement. Part of our cooperative spirit has to include the process by which we go about honoring and modifying the agreements we've made with people to share space. And if part of the issue is that people think the original arrangement itself was not in keeping with PP's culture, then we should discuss that too.

Patrick - thank you for the statement but I believe (and you acknowledge) that there are multiple sides to the story and the history of this entire thing. I hope we can get to a point where are not rehashing all of this, but here is some context from my perspective. There was a long period of time when the entire second floor was almost unusable due to the fact that there was art and supplies everywhere. This was due to the fact that repairs had to happen in the basement, but after they were done it took a long time to move everything back down and make the second floor usable again. At that time, we didn't put lines on the floor to say this should be an office space and nothing else. We understood and worked with the people that we had and knew that we needed to be flexible. Once the basement was fixed and we finally coordinated everything moving down, for a very long time, the basement was left untouched for anyone except for Saks and Qinza to use. That might have been at a time when they weren't around or were otherwise occupied because it felt as if it was empty. Maybe it was because there was a fear of mold. We had paid for a full scale atmosphere test to confirm that the there were no allergens. Regardless, it seemed to become a storage space. It became difficult to haul everything up to third floor for storage. So yes, we moved items into the basement. Yes, we started to creep into that space which was unused for a long period of time. It is not as cut and dry as you're making it sound, and I think that discussing the past as the only reason to decide the future doesn't honor those that are in the conversation now nor the nuance of the situation before.

Thanks very much, Roz, for that feedback. It's helpful to have the background. I also agree that we need not be controlled by the past in reaching a new arrangement. It's especially helpful to know that there's a great deal of nuance and additional perspectives about how the basement was intended to be used and came to be used. In any event, since the proposal has been blocked, it now falls back to the proposers to modify and resubmit to the cooperative. That's our process, and I think this is a good example of how the new "voting as conversation/discussion" advanced by Chris is meant to work.

My response to Qinza's email, which gives her story for why she wrote the proposal:

Qinza,

Thanks for sharing this!! I really appreciate how brave and vulnerable you are.

Just so you all know:

1. Qinza and I are currently working on a document on how to take care of art if it absolutely needs to be moved in the basement and norms so we don't damage people's items on accident.

2. As a collective we need to have a greater conversation on how we take up space without leaving space for others as a norm. Maybe we could do this next week or at the July 26th dinner.

3. I was talking to Alex the other day and we were talking about creating a training / onboarding on chores + how to care for the space both for new members and residents as well as old members and residents. If anyone else would like to talk chime in on this and add suggestions, please let me know. But, I think this could help for a collective change in culture on how we take care of the space, clean up and make a nice space for others to enter.

4. Regarding understanding for the artists creative process, Qinza, let's chat about what this means for the artists in the current space so we can create a little blurb for everyone in the basement along with the write up for how to care for art.

Sorry it took me so long to respond! I will also post this in Loomio.

Amelia