Time to revive the Legal Working Group?
![NS](/rails/active_storage/representations/redirect/eyJfcmFpbHMiOnsibWVzc2FnZSI6IkJBaHBBOGU1Q1E9PSIsImV4cCI6bnVsbCwicHVyIjoiYmxvYl9pZCJ9fQ==--e9a5216b0c43bd20be985b04a523f1dac5d94986/eyJfcmFpbHMiOnsibWVzc2FnZSI6IkJBaDdDRG9MWm05eWJXRjBTU0lKYW5CbFp3WTZCa1ZVT2hSeVpYTnBlbVZmZEc5ZmJHbHRhWFJiQjJrQmdHa0JnRG9LYzJGMlpYSjdCem9NY1hWaGJHbDBlV2xWT2dwemRISnBjRlE9IiwiZXhwIjpudWxsLCJwdXIiOiJ2YXJpYXRpb24ifX0=--e579049eb7f20fc1070cc24f3215f2949d184302/nathan_schneider.jpg%3F1442278666)
We used to have a Legal Working Group, but it has not been active since 2018. Now that we have a larger community, with some amazing lawyers in it, should we revive it?
Here are some pending things it might work on:
Clarify ownership status of Social.coop IP and content
Clarify fiscal sponsorship relationship with Platform6
Identify and mitigate potential legal risks
Publicize our legal knowledge and documents for use by other co-ops
What else?
The group used to be called "Legal/Governance Working Group," but I propose it should be more narrowly focused on legal interfaces, since governance is something that the Community Working Group and Finance Working Group also work on—and governance is a shared task!
![BS](/rails/active_storage/representations/redirect/eyJfcmFpbHMiOnsibWVzc2FnZSI6IkJBaHBBd2NLQ2c9PSIsImV4cCI6bnVsbCwicHVyIjoiYmxvYl9pZCJ9fQ==--7d88e7abc0c004ffe1ab764cc8ef8695f9c58427/eyJfcmFpbHMiOnsibWVzc2FnZSI6IkJBaDdDRG9MWm05eWJXRjBTU0lKYW5CbFp3WTZCa1ZVT2hSeVpYTnBlbVZmZEc5ZmJHbHRhWFJiQjJrQmdHa0JnRG9LYzJGMlpYSjdCem9NY1hWaGJHbDBlV2xWT2dwemRISnBjRlE9IiwiZXhwIjpudWxsLCJwdXIiOiJ2YXJpYXRpb24ifX0=--e579049eb7f20fc1070cc24f3215f2949d184302/NightHackingEdit.jpg%3F1474862005)
Billy Smith Wed 16 Nov 2022 7:44AM
This can be dealt with relatively simply, as it's an existing-problem-for-forum-admins-everywhere. :D
Add in the appropriate clauses to the T&C's, and create a take-down policy that can be used practically and sensibly.
Be upfront and explicit about what is acceptable to host.
Be upfront and explicit about what is not.
Enforce those conditions equitably and absolutely.
Make the logs of what is happening transparent to everyone taking part, so that "Justice is not only done, but also seen to be done."
Put explicit limits on how new members can first interact with the servers/wiki/forums.
The reason for the last one, is to stop bots registering, and spamming. ( Yes, i do know about the current protections that we use, but i have also seen how inventive spammers can be... :D )
![NS](/rails/active_storage/representations/redirect/eyJfcmFpbHMiOnsibWVzc2FnZSI6IkJBaHBBOGU1Q1E9PSIsImV4cCI6bnVsbCwicHVyIjoiYmxvYl9pZCJ9fQ==--e9a5216b0c43bd20be985b04a523f1dac5d94986/eyJfcmFpbHMiOnsibWVzc2FnZSI6IkJBaDdDRG9MWm05eWJXRjBTU0lKYW5CbFp3WTZCa1ZVT2hSeVpYTnBlbVZmZEc5ZmJHbHRhWFJiQjJrQmdHa0JnRG9LYzJGMlpYSjdCem9NY1hWaGJHbDBlV2xWT2dwemRISnBjRlE9IiwiZXhwIjpudWxsLCJwdXIiOiJ2YXJpYXRpb24ifX0=--e579049eb7f20fc1070cc24f3215f2949d184302/nathan_schneider.jpg%3F1442278666)
Poll Created Thu 17 Nov 2022 10:54PM
Revive the Legal Working Group Closed Thu 24 Nov 2022 10:01PM
There are no objections. We will proceed. I will invite those who expressed interest to begin their work.
We used to have a Legal Working Group, but it has not been active since 2018. Now that we have a larger community, and potentially larger legal exposure, and a bunch of amazing volunteers, should we revive it?
If passed, this proposal would do the following:
Reactivate the Legal Working Group (under that name, not the old name of "Legal/Governance," since we all participate in governance)
Prompt an approval vote for self-nominated members
Invite the members to begin meeting and beginning the work of legal oversight for Social.coop
Results
Results | Option | % of points | Voters | |
---|---|---|---|---|
|
Agree | 92.5% | 49 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Abstain | 7.5% | 4 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
Disagree | 0.0% | 0 | ||
Undecided | 0% | 193 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
53 of 246 people have participated (21%)
Deleted account
Thu 17 Nov 2022 10:54PM
I think it could be useful to have input on law-related matters from people with expertise in that area, though I'd suggest avoiding anything that comes close to a solicitor-client relationship. Both because of issues with jurisdictional competence, and because it would require clearing conflicts (or could create conflicts down the road with other clients).
![JA](/rails/active_storage/representations/redirect/eyJfcmFpbHMiOnsibWVzc2FnZSI6IkJBaHBBeCtpQ2c9PSIsImV4cCI6bnVsbCwicHVyIjoiYmxvYl9pZCJ9fQ==--36b874c187ae63ba9274dbb90bc2da3d1b109a47/eyJfcmFpbHMiOnsibWVzc2FnZSI6IkJBaDdDRG9MWm05eWJXRjBTU0lKYW5CbFp3WTZCa1ZVT2hSeVpYTnBlbVZmZEc5ZmJHbHRhWFJiQjJrQmdHa0JnRG9LYzJGMlpYSjdCem9NY1hWaGJHbDBlV2xWT2dwemRISnBjRlE9IiwiZXhwIjpudWxsLCJwdXIiOiJ2YXJpYXRpb24ifX0=--e579049eb7f20fc1070cc24f3215f2949d184302/6283E8D4-13E6-4059-A188-F7DD102DCE6A.jpeg%3F1593463147)
Joseph Andriano
Thu 17 Nov 2022 10:54PM
I agree with @TorontoWill. As a lawyer who has served on the boards of many non-profits, the rule is always to educate and help identity issues, but not to actually give advice as how to resolve those issues. I could imagine one of the lawyers actually entering into a lawyer-client relationship to undertake the work, but that would need to be spelled out with an actual engagement letter. For my part, I’m just here as a volunteer to issue spot.
![JDC](/rails/active_storage/representations/redirect/eyJfcmFpbHMiOnsibWVzc2FnZSI6IkJBaHBBME5ERUE9PSIsImV4cCI6bnVsbCwicHVyIjoiYmxvYl9pZCJ9fQ==--6b5b8ded761be61d540f647d590917dfdc32ee43/eyJfcmFpbHMiOnsibWVzc2FnZSI6IkJBaDdDRG9MWm05eWJXRjBTU0lJY0c1bkJqb0dSVlE2RkhKbGMybDZaVjkwYjE5c2FXMXBkRnNIYVFHQWFRR0FPZ3B6WVhabGNuc0hPZ3h4ZFdGc2FYUjVhVlU2Q25OMGNtbHdWQT09IiwiZXhwIjpudWxsLCJwdXIiOiJ2YXJpYXRpb24ifX0=--76fbfb4cf6c235059586b0c7c347dd0d77445cbe/justin-r-c.png)
Justin du Coeur
Thu 17 Nov 2022 10:54PM
If there is work to be done, and qualified people who are interested in tackling it, then IMO it totally makes sense. I would just advise that we be open to putting it back into abeyance if they get through the inbox and don't have more to do. (It is easy for committees to continue indefinitely just because nobody is prepared to say "okay, we're done", and that's usually not a win in my experience.)
![BS](/rails/active_storage/representations/redirect/eyJfcmFpbHMiOnsibWVzc2FnZSI6IkJBaHBBd2NLQ2c9PSIsImV4cCI6bnVsbCwicHVyIjoiYmxvYl9pZCJ9fQ==--7d88e7abc0c004ffe1ab764cc8ef8695f9c58427/eyJfcmFpbHMiOnsibWVzc2FnZSI6IkJBaDdDRG9MWm05eWJXRjBTU0lKYW5CbFp3WTZCa1ZVT2hSeVpYTnBlbVZmZEc5ZmJHbHRhWFJiQjJrQmdHa0JnRG9LYzJGMlpYSjdCem9NY1hWaGJHbDBlV2xWT2dwemRISnBjRlE9IiwiZXhwIjpudWxsLCJwdXIiOiJ2YXJpYXRpb24ifX0=--e579049eb7f20fc1070cc24f3215f2949d184302/NightHackingEdit.jpg%3F1474862005)
Billy Smith
Thu 17 Nov 2022 10:54PM
It's always less expensive to learn from other people's mistakes, and, mistakes in the legal side of things are usually longer-term problems, so are more expensive to fix. Places where we can share our experiences and get better advice would be great. :D
![N](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/525ddf1ae0f87a3bc6ddf8be6cc4b50c.png?d=retro&r=pg&s=128)
Neil - @[email protected]
Thu 17 Nov 2022 10:54PM
As both the Fediverse and socialcoop grows, seems like a sensible idea to have people on hand to educate and identify possible legal issues.
![EM](/rails/active_storage/representations/redirect/eyJfcmFpbHMiOnsibWVzc2FnZSI6IkJBaHBBMmJnRHc9PSIsImV4cCI6bnVsbCwicHVyIjoiYmxvYl9pZCJ9fQ==--73dd84d5743960bd764099ee41a3d7100653f991/eyJfcmFpbHMiOnsibWVzc2FnZSI6IkJBaDdDRG9MWm05eWJXRjBTU0lJY0c1bkJqb0dSVlE2RkhKbGMybDZaVjkwYjE5c2FXMXBkRnNIYVFHQWFRR0FPZ3B6WVhabGNuc0hPZ3h4ZFdGc2FYUjVhVlU2Q25OMGNtbHdWQT09IiwiZXhwIjpudWxsLCJwdXIiOiJ2YXJpYXRpb24ifX0=--76fbfb4cf6c235059586b0c7c347dd0d77445cbe/EduardoMercovich2020-redondo-color.png)
Eduardo Mercovich
Thu 17 Nov 2022 10:54PM
This area if far from my experience and I'm still new in this coop to cast any vote, so I trust the rest who express their opinions here. :)
Thanks a lot for the attention to this point, independently of what happens next. :)
Christina Bowen
Thu 17 Nov 2022 10:54PM
makes sense to me. also thank you all for the attention to detail throughout this coop
![ZS](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d3275364a600b8dae68a2c9ea807fc7e.png?d=retro&r=pg&s=128)
Zee Spencer
Thu 17 Nov 2022 10:54PM
Seems like having a circle / working-group would be lovely. Is there a Charter or something similar which describes the rights/responsibilities of the prior working-group; as well as onboarding/participation/offboarding? Or would y'all be starting that from scratch?
![TB](/rails/active_storage/representations/redirect/eyJfcmFpbHMiOnsibWVzc2FnZSI6IkJBaHBBNjdSQ1E9PSIsImV4cCI6bnVsbCwicHVyIjoiYmxvYl9pZCJ9fQ==--033f92ba1e88b6f5ba1bb118e6b7c2a5d0b27f17/eyJfcmFpbHMiOnsibWVzc2FnZSI6IkJBaDdDRG9MWm05eWJXRjBTU0lKYW5CbFp3WTZCa1ZVT2hSeVpYTnBlbVZmZEc5ZmJHbHRhWFJiQjJrQmdHa0JnRG9LYzJGMlpYSjdCem9NY1hWaGJHbDBlV2xWT2dwemRISnBjRlE9IiwiZXhwIjpudWxsLCJwdXIiOiJ2YXJpYXRpb24ifX0=--e579049eb7f20fc1070cc24f3215f2949d184302/tbeckett.jpg%3F1503923965)
Thomas Beckett
Thu 17 Nov 2022 10:54PM
This is good and I can potentially pitch in with my legal skillz depending upon the timing. I'm generally under water lately, however.
![IS](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/30f78d0bcafc1f7ce183ac6d97717f1b.png?d=retro&r=pg&s=128)
Ian Smith
Thu 17 Nov 2022 10:54PM
This is absolutely necessary in light of GDPR, german data protection laws, sesta/fosta, etc. Some good resources re being posted around, including comments on this post https://mastodon.xyz/@johl/109364796050171555
We may want to have a look at https://legal.social/terms for some guidance
Ananta Gauranga dasa
Sat 19 Nov 2022 5:12PM
Others have already mentioned it: GDPR and German data protection law need to be taken into account too. Liability is a real risk, also at the personal level.
Eliot Lash
Thu 17 Nov 2022 10:54PM
We live in a world where spaces like ours face a host of legal challenges. I think having a legal working group (ideally with at least some bona fide lawyers) would be a great idea.
![B](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/3b9a370cdb293427f29e46f7503c3bf9.png?d=retro&r=pg&s=128)
brainwane
Thu 17 Nov 2022 10:54PM
Makes sense to me. I see Denise Paolucci, co-founder of Dreamwidth, just posted https://denise.dreamwidth.org/91757.html which discusses legal obligations we will need to cover.
![MP](/rails/active_storage/representations/redirect/eyJfcmFpbHMiOnsibWVzc2FnZSI6IkJBaHBBODM3Q1E9PSIsImV4cCI6bnVsbCwicHVyIjoiYmxvYl9pZCJ9fQ==--833d0200714239066630999c6f2ea8a7cc10445c/eyJfcmFpbHMiOnsibWVzc2FnZSI6IkJBaDdDRG9MWm05eWJXRjBTU0lKYW5CbFp3WTZCa1ZVT2hSeVpYTnBlbVZmZEc5ZmJHbHRhWFJiQjJrQmdHa0JnRG9LYzJGMlpYSjdCem9NY1hWaGJHbDBlV2xWT2dwemRISnBjRlE9IiwiZXhwIjpudWxsLCJwdXIiOiJ2YXJpYXRpb24ifX0=--e579049eb7f20fc1070cc24f3215f2949d184302/20171101_152738.jpg%3F1623703372)
Michael Potter
Thu 17 Nov 2022 10:54PM
If we have qualified and willing people, and I think we do, then this is a good idea.
Mick Brooks
Thu 17 Nov 2022 10:54PM
After seeing recent discussions about liabilities that fall on those that run servers, I'd appreciate having a group looking into such risks on our behalf.
![KRC](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/999642be81fd52e96de4b39009c47f0b.png?d=retro&r=pg&s=128)
Kyle R. Conway (K_REY_C)
Tue 22 Nov 2022 3:35AM
Sensible
![BMH](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/c765934363224852356e0d9a992b3a23.png?d=retro&r=pg&s=128)
Benjamin Mako Hill
Thu 17 Nov 2022 10:54PM
This seems very important and I appreciate anybody who will volunteer to help with this.
![SJK](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/a3772d029f133be5b9d3ca2d04f9161b.png?d=retro&r=pg&s=128)
Stephanie Jo Kent
Thu 17 Nov 2022 10:54PM
Seems like a proactive move, just in case...
Eamon Caddigan
Thu 17 Nov 2022 10:54PM
Add me to the list of members who thought "oh, that's probably a good idea" when they saw that DMCA thread.
![SR](/rails/active_storage/representations/redirect/eyJfcmFpbHMiOnsibWVzc2FnZSI6IkJBaHBBemorQ1E9PSIsImV4cCI6bnVsbCwicHVyIjoiYmxvYl9pZCJ9fQ==--95af8ec4b139cb85ebc5c18af38404aab81a42ff/eyJfcmFpbHMiOnsibWVzc2FnZSI6IkJBaDdDRG9MWm05eWJXRjBTU0lKYW5CbFp3WTZCa1ZVT2hSeVpYTnBlbVZmZEc5ZmJHbHRhWFJiQjJrQmdHa0JnRG9LYzJGMlpYSjdCem9NY1hWaGJHbDBlV2xWT2dwemRISnBjRlE9IiwiZXhwIjpudWxsLCJwdXIiOiJ2YXJpYXRpb24ifX0=--e579049eb7f20fc1070cc24f3215f2949d184302/sam.jpg%3F1462441709)
Sam Rossiter Fri 18 Nov 2022 10:12PM
This might be interesting for those picking up this work:
Eliot Lash Sat 19 Nov 2022 3:48PM
Hello, IANAL but I think it would be great if we had a legal working group. I recently had a legal concern around DMCA compliance I think it would be ideal for this group to look into: https://social.coop/@Eliot_L/109368846808935959
![BMH](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/c765934363224852356e0d9a992b3a23.png?d=retro&r=pg&s=128)
Benjamin Mako Hill Tue 22 Nov 2022 6:40PM
I was coming here to post about the same thing. It seems like someone needs to register as an agent for receiving DMCA takedown requests. I believe that this points the same thread on Twitter that has details: https://social.coop/web/@[email protected]/109371081440960114
It seems like it costs a very small amount of money each year but also requires that someone serve as the DMCA agent.
This seems quite important. Although the chance of a major problem at our scale is low, if there were a big problem, not having done this could be an existential threat to the community.
![JDC](/rails/active_storage/representations/redirect/eyJfcmFpbHMiOnsibWVzc2FnZSI6IkJBaHBBME5ERUE9PSIsImV4cCI6bnVsbCwicHVyIjoiYmxvYl9pZCJ9fQ==--6b5b8ded761be61d540f647d590917dfdc32ee43/eyJfcmFpbHMiOnsibWVzc2FnZSI6IkJBaDdDRG9MWm05eWJXRjBTU0lJY0c1bkJqb0dSVlE2RkhKbGMybDZaVjkwYjE5c2FXMXBkRnNIYVFHQWFRR0FPZ3B6WVhabGNuc0hPZ3h4ZFdGc2FYUjVhVlU2Q25OMGNtbHdWQT09IiwiZXhwIjpudWxsLCJwdXIiOiJ2YXJpYXRpb24ifX0=--76fbfb4cf6c235059586b0c7c347dd0d77445cbe/justin-r-c.png)
Justin du Coeur Mon 21 Nov 2022 3:46AM
Hopefully the members of the Legal Working Group know all this and have these bases covered, but Denise (admin of Dreamwidth, one of the longer-running blog sites) just posted a pretty excellent explainer of legal considerations for running a Mastodon server.
![O](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/f8411662ffbc88aecdd85bad48260891.png?d=retro&r=pg&s=128)
Éamonn O'Brien-Strain Sat 24 Dec 2022 12:53PM
Reposting something I posted on Matrix that evoked some discussion, but is probably more appropriate here...
Has anyone reviewed this article from EFF that describes steps that Mastodon admins should take to avoid legal issues in the US? Have we on social.coop done these things? https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2022/12/user-generated-content-and-fediverse-legal-primer
Neil - @[email protected] · Mon 14 Nov 2022 9:57PM
IANAL so I don't know if it's needed or not... but if a legal working group forms might be good to get clarity on what happens if illegal content somehow federates and gets stored on our server. And probably handy to get legal input on GDPR/data related issues.