Sensorica Next Generation Infrastructure
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Sensorica is working on fundraising for OVN infrastructure. There has been much discussion in the Sensorica email list on this. This Loomio discussion is to have a more structured conversation on what the fundraising is for, and what is the agreed upon structure for any project resulting from the fundraising.
NOTE: This discussion is NOT about the fundraising itself, that is happening elsewhere.
General proposal on the table for the possible infrastructure project, for discussion:
* The project team will include all the people who have been working on the infrastructure in any significant way, if they want to join.
* The team (new and old people) will all agree they can work with each other productively before final formation of the team.
* The team will only include people who have proven commitment to the OVN or other next-economy forms, not in it just for the money.
* The team will manage itself. The team will set up its own process methodology and its own value equation.
* The team will make technical and architectural decisions for the good of the project, with input from supportive people who have relevant technical knowledge.
* The role of the R&D and outreach people at Sensorica will be as valued collaborators, and focus on Sensorica requirements and preferences, feedback, and testing.
The other part of the discussion is what possible paths to take, and there have been some thoughts put forward on that. Many of these are not mutually exclusive, so could be worked on in parallel, more a matter of how any funding would be divided up between the finally chosen options.
Some possibilities that have been mentioned already, and I'm sure people can put more forward:
* Strengthen and clean up the existing model layer (where the logic lives), and create an API for that.
* A complete new UI, or multiple new UIs, to include web and mobile interfaces. Or partial new pieces of UI, and keep some of the existing mundane parts. New UI relates to the previous one, because a new model API and new UI would work together.
* Start completely over, build from scratch. (This one is mutually exclusive I guess, except the requirements developed in the NRP could be used as a starting point. Or not.)
* Rethink the base technology. This includes for example using blockchain. Might be other things people are thinking of in this arena. (Note using Ethereum or similar would be at a different layer than the NRP logic itself.)
* Rethink some or all of the model / operations logic. (For example we had started rethinking Exchanges to be much more generic and user defined, inheriting less from the existing world.)
* Emergency maintenance only on NRP, otherwise stop work in favor of other efforts.
* There are some invisible parts of NRP that need improvement: One click installation; new login code; get current with the software libraries we are using; that kind of thing.
* Contribute to the work already going on to develop interoperability between networks: standard vocabulary and protocols, etc. This is needed whether between 2 instances of NRP where there are resource flows between networks in different instances of the software (like Sensorica and the media collective), or 2 instances in totally different software, making it totally flexible what any network chooses to use, as long as each software platform can speak the language to each other.
NOTE: The above is a gathering of earlier thoughts, and is somewhat of a mish-mash.
The goal is for people to come up with specific proposals that everyone can discuss and vote on.
Hoped for result:
1. Agreement on governance and project principles.
2. Agreement on what specific initiatives the funding will support, preferably weighted.
Frederic Durville
Wed 16 Sep 2015 9:00PM
I believe this project should move forward irrespective of what happens with sensorica.
Abran Khalid Wed 16 Sep 2015 10:41PM
@bobhaugen @lynnfoster
What is happening to the world. The preachers need to be preached to now. Lynn and Bob, you should not abstain. You are as much part of the Sensorica core as anyone else. Without both of you working the magic behind the scenes, we would have pitched battles over money allocation and rewards every month.
So I don't accept you noble gesture of abstaining. I demand your vote for the same reason you encourage me to dive in at the deep end of discussions that are usually way above my pay scale.
Abran Khalid Wed 16 Sep 2015 10:45PM
@lynnfoster @bobhaugen , can you also please also give a rough description of the role such a team would play. A brief description of what tasks you had in mind that would help you work with the Sensorica affiliates better would do.
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Bob Haugen Wed 16 Sep 2015 10:55PM
@abran - I really appreciate your kind words. We are continuing to work on the NRP software as well as a couple of other related software projects. We abstained only because we want to get a reading from Sensoricans, and we are actually a peer network. Sensorica has been very important to us and the software, but we will go on even if Sensorica decides to stop working with us on software. It is not a noble gesture.
We want to continue to work with Sensorica. Don't misunderstand. It has been a great collaboration. We want more of your input on the My Work page, for example.
Were we to vote, it would be of course in agreement with Lynn's proposal.
But it would also be legitimate for Sensorica to say, ok, Bob and Lynn have taken it as far as they could, we need fresh eyes.
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Bob Haugen Wed 16 Sep 2015 11:01PM
@abrankhalid - continued: you wrote "can you also please also give a rough description of the role such a team would play. A brief description of what tasks you had in mind that would help you work with the Sensorica affiliates better would do."
A lot of this would be up to the participants in the funded project, which we expect would include us but also others.
We think it should involve an much-accelerated feedback loop. One necessary component would be one or more people who were deeply involved in the UI design for the project who were also involved in the Sensorica work. At least one should be in Montreal. The other could be anywhere, but should be an active participant in Sensorica projects.
We personally (me and Lynn) would prefer to pull back from programming and be more like consultants. That will most likely not be possible; we will probably need to be actively involved in creating an API. But sooner or later, we want consultant hats and badges and to become elders.
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Lynn Foster Thu 24 Sep 2015 6:38PM
@tiberiusbrastavice you are the only missing vote from the core group. It is important to us that you put in your thoughts here, given the history of what happens with fundraising. If you don't agree, you can let us know what you would like changed and we can discuss it. But we do need to know where we stand.
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Bob Haugen Sun 4 Oct 2015 1:43PM
Here's what we are thinking about, given the votes and other signals of continued interest in using and improving the NRP/VAS/Whatever software, and also signs of improved democratic participation in Sensorica.
Mostly, maybe we could have an active feedback loop again. If so, it would be a shame to abandon it.
We do have features we want to develop in the software that an active feedback loop with Sensoricans could help with.
This is not about the next generation of the software, or a funded infrastructure project, but it might lead into that (which I'll discuss as yet another topic). It's about continuing work on the current project, which we have been unsure we wanted to do.
Yes, UI improvements. We've seen ideas from @abrankhalid , @fredericdurville , @mariafrangos and @fabioballi . And some interest from @johndanger. We'll start another Loomio discussion to probe where this set of ideas could go. If we get an active team working on UI/UX design, we'll work with them.
Lynn wants to develop ExchangeTypes, which will allow defining a network's own types of exchanges, like Fiscal Sponsorships or Crowdfunding. This was started but has a lot more to do, really a whole re-think of the exchange model to be much more flexible and less traditional business oriented. This will also fix the confusing annoyances (like having to do 2 steps) and bugs in the current exchange logging.
We both really want to develop work collaboration features and would love to have some people focus on that with us.
Likewise, I'm interested in rethinking iterative R&D with people who do that. We have never supported that well, and possibly don't know how to.
So what do you all think? We'll start another discussion about #1. Any interest in 2, 3, or 4? If so, we'll start separate discussions about each of them.
Frederic Durville Mon 5 Oct 2015 3:23PM
I would be happy to participate as much as I can, which is not always much....
Anything that can improve collaboration is good...
I am willing to spend some time to evaluate different features or give my 2-cents.
FD
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Fabio Balli Mon 5 Oct 2015 5:43PM
@bobhaugen I'd be glad to contribute, directly for 1 and 4, and for 2 and 3 if it at the same time helps Breathing Games move forward.
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Bob Haugen Mon 5 Oct 2015 5:59PM
@fabioballi - that's a good trade. We're thinking with @mariafrangos about how to organize the UI/UX improvements. More to come in that Loomio thread that Maria started. I'm thinking about how to approach work coordination, and will be asking the Breathing Games crew for suggestions.
I'm looking for somebody who can lead the charge on iterative R&D, and I'll try to follow.
Frederic Durville Mon 5 Oct 2015 7:25PM
@bobhaugen what do you need for the iterative R&D? Or what do you have in mind?
FD
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Bob Haugen Mon 5 Oct 2015 7:31PM
@fredericdurville - we haven't supported it well. And when I say well, I mean, pretty much not at all. And we don't have enough experience with it to have any gut feel to go by. I was a manufacturing and supply chain guy, and I have gut feels for that kind of thing. I tried to get an iterative R&D collaboration going with some people in our neighborhood, but they did not understand collaborative R&D, so each person just went off on their own and seldom communicated.
So what we want is a conversation about iterative, collaborative R&D where some people who are doing it talk to us about everything they are doing while they are doing it. It would be sorta annoying. The best thing would be to visit Montreal again and watch and participate, but we can't afford it. Which is why I was trying to get something going nearby.
I know that's not much to go on, but I love unsolved problems and I don't think one is solved yet. Or at least I haven't seen anything that does it well.
Does that explain anything? Clear as mud?
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Lynn Foster Mon 5 Oct 2015 8:06PM
@fredericdurville Here are a couple more specific observations, and I'm sure there are many more:
* People like to design and maybe prototype and test more than one option at the same time, and then evaluate which one to go with.
* People tend to iterate the same design - prototype cycle for some unknown number of times. Like, "let's do the same thing but try with this change".
Our current recipes don't support this type of thing well.
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Bob Haugen Mon 5 Oct 2015 8:12PM
What Lynn wrote was a lot more practical than what I wrote...;-)
Frederic Durville Tue 6 Oct 2015 12:05AM
Well, I do know about R&D.... I have been involved in R&D almost my entire life...
I would be happy to work with you and see what we can accomplish.
How should we start? Would you like me to start outlining a typical R&D process?
In addition to R&D, there is also what is normally referred to as "engineering", and there is sometimes overlap and confusion between the two processes.
Normally R&D applies to a new product or a new process or new technology. Sometimes R&D is driven by a specific market demand / application, but sometimes R&D is just plain investigation without any specific objective other than understanding.
Engineering normally refers to refinement / change / improvement of an existing product, which may either replace the older product or generate a new product.
A typical R&D process leading to a new product has several "steps", usually starting with a "concept idea". This is typically just a thought on paper. This concept idea then needs to be conceptually or theoretically investigated, and experimentally confirmed. This is a "proof of concept" experimental demonstration. This "proof of concept" is usually a relatively simple experiment. This may require acquiring specific material or equipment, or simply re-using existing material and/or equipment in a new configuration.
Once the "proof of concept" has been successfully completed, the next phase is a "refinement" phase, leading to a first concept prototype. Typically more theoretical analysis and modeling is performed to better understand how the device will function and perform, and some estimation of manufacturability is also performed. This first prototype should provide a complete functionality as desired for a complete and actual device. However, the actual implementation of the prototype in shape and form may be vastly different from the final device. This is just to confirm all the functionality expected from the final device. Several prototypes may be built to be tested in various environments or different places.
At that point, a market study should also be undertaken, to define the market and define the requirements for the device.
The next step is then to build and test a pre-production prototype (or a few). This prototype should be relatively close to the final commercial device. At this point, all manufacturing requirements and specifications should also be worked out. The fabrication of the pre-production prototypes should validate all manufacturing processes. Design adjustments may be made to accommodate or improve manufacturability, or accommodate the customer or the application.
At that point, the new device should be ready to be manufactured and introduced on the market.
From thereon, any improvement or modification should fall under engineering.
Is this a good start?
FD
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Bob Haugen Tue 6 Oct 2015 12:09AM
@fredericdurville great start! Thank you very much.
Frederic Durville Tue 6 Oct 2015 12:19AM
@lynnfoster
"* People like to design and maybe prototype and test more than one option at the same time, and then evaluate which one to go with.
* People tend to iterate the same design - prototype cycle for some unknown number of times. Like, “let’s do the same thing but try with this change”."
Yes, indeed. Let's take the example of the soil moisture sensor. The initial concept idea is to use an optical beam and measure how it is reflected with different level of humidity.
So there are several "problems" that need to be solved:
1) how to emit the beam of light.
2) how to deliver the beam of light to the desired location.
3) how to capture the reflected beam of light.
4) how to measure and analyze the reflected beam of light.
5) finally, how to correlate the measurement of the beam of light with the moisture content.
Each of those individual problem can be solved with different solution.
1) can be solved by using either a LED or a laser (or maybe even other sources).
2) can be solved with various types of optical fiber, or by placing the light source directly at the location where we want to do the measurement.
3) can be solved by using a mirror, or simply the natural reflection / scattering from the sample to be analysed.
and so forth and so on.... each possible solution may have its own advantage or disadvantages. So one can do some analysis (pros / cons evaluation) for some of them, and do some actual experimental measurements for some others....
A lot of time the R&D process is completely by-passed, and then it is pure luck if it leads to a successful product.....
I hope all this is helpful.
So please, just let me know how I can help you.
FD
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Bob Haugen Thu 8 Oct 2015 10:16PM
@fredericdurville - this is just a ping to let you know that things are moving a little slowly, but your outlines are very useful, and we will use them. We're trying to figure out how to organize these projects.
Frederic Durville Fri 9 Oct 2015 2:05AM
Glad to know that I was able to help...
Ping me again if you need anything else...
FD
Maria Frangos Thu 15 Oct 2015 4:32PM
Lynn posted some use cases on Github. I am reposting here. We can add to them as we go along. Perhaps we should start a thread for this alone so it doesn't get lost. Are we able to create smaller discussions within a larger thread?
--- use cases ---
As a person doing work on a project, I want to easily log my work, so that I don't have to spend extra time on that when I can be doing "real work", so that I can earn rewards when the project makes income.
As a person doing work, I want to log my work in the context of the project's plan, so I don't have to enter everything about what I am doing, rather just log against the plan.
As a person doing work, I want others to log their inputs that involve my work (usage, consumption, and citations), so that the resource flows are created properly, so that I can also share in income from their work which my efforts helped.
As a person doing work, I want to be able to find the inputs I use easily and for that information to be accurate, so that all the resource flows are created properly, so that everyone receives compensation for their contributions fairly.
As a person doing non-project work ("overhead" work), I want to be able to easily log my work, so that I can also share in eventual rewards coming in to the network.
As an affiliate of the network, I want to be able to see in one place what is relevant to me, so that I don't have to look around in the software.
As a project team or as a team coordinator or responsible person, we want to get an overview of the current work in our project, so that we can easily see the status and any potential problems.
As a planner, I want to be able to create work plans from recipes that are already set up to reflect the type of work I want to happen, so that it is really easy to create plans.
As a planner, I want to be able to create work plans one-off in any way I see fit, so that planning does not have to follow pre-set patterns.
As a newcomer to the network, I want to be able to see where I might plug in to the existing efforts (for example, what projects are active, who is doing what work, what is needed), so that I can contribute where it is important.
As a person making a purchase or a financial or material contribution, I want to easily log that contribution, so that I can earn rewards when the project has income.
As a person working in an exchange firm, I want to be able to create orders and sales information for everything I sell that was made in the context of the network, so that the work to create the products/services happens to fulfil the order, and the complete flow is created correctly.
As a person working in an exchange firm, I want to be able to distribute the income easily, so that the money will flow correctly into the network with a portion going to the exchange firm.
As a project team, we want to be able to distribute income in any way we choose, so that we can democratically decide this based on our needs and wishes.
As a person who received a distribution, I want to allocate that distribution back into the network or a project, or get a payout for myself easily, so that my distributions are used as I want.
Frederic Durville Thu 15 Oct 2015 4:50PM
Another case would be for a financial contributor (such as for the Sensorica 3D printer), I would like to see how my financial contribution is being used, or how significant it is.
In the case of the 3D printer, as a "shared owner", it would nice to see how (or how much) it is being used, and what revenue (if any) is generated from it.
FD
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Bob Haugen Thu 15 Oct 2015 4:56PM
@mariafrangos @fredericdurville can we move all of this UI/UX ideas over to this new discussion? https://www.loomio.org/d/1LJqUgmV/gathering-sensorica-ui-ux-requirements
Thanks. We just got another contributor, Paola Di Maio, and I think the context of this discussion will just be confusing for new people.
(But, yeah, Frederic, that is a great use case! If you don't repeat over in that other thread, I'll copy and paste..)
Bob Haugen · Wed 16 Sep 2015 9:37PM
@fredericdurville - thanks, it will. We've been working on this for years, and have no intention of stopping. Got several other networks in motion.