Worker Co-operative CICs (Community Interest Companies) - do we have a list? do you know any?

@John Atherton Thanks for this, am going to experiment with the map search as we are also looking for a Peer Mentor Coop as part of Cooperative UK business support.

In terms of posting here, I was already on Loomio for our coop, so this is a quicker transition.

It definitely doesn't feel at all dead to me here, and I've actually got more engagement here than on workers.coop. But regardless, I will continue to cross-post, and hopefully that won't annoy anyone...

Hi

Get in touch with Principle Six and the Worker Coop Federation. In particular, speak with Sion Whellans or Caleb Elliot. There is also an educational Psychology worker cooperative, I helped set up that spent time considering some of these issues.

I would also be happy to advise as well.

Regards

@Douglas Racionzer Thanks for this. We have been very well supported by Sion for a while (I should probably have said).

It would be really useful to know the name of that educational Psychology worker cooperative - could it be this one? https://www.learningandwellbeing.org/

Or this one: https://www.beyond-psychology.co.uk/

I did find one in the north of England a few years ago but can't find a trace now - perhaps they closed.

In terms of advising, the next step for us is to select a Peer Mentor Coop that would be paid by the Cooperative UK business support programme, to provide us with start-up insight. I'm not sure if I should make a new thread to ask about how people have or would select their peer mentor, but if you have any advice, that would be appreciated.

I second what Adrian says, it is hard to marry the CIC regulators powers with the co-operative principles and I have never really found that grant funders prioritise the CIC form so there is no real advantage (you also can't advertise for loan stock). It is a sort of halfway house without the advantages of either side

Another group worth asking these questions to, is CoTech.

https://www.coops.tech/

Yes, they are working in a different industry sector to the therapy practice that you want to set up, but they were working with Islington Council on helping local groups set up co-operatives in 2022, so will have more recent knowledge of the practical details. :D

https://cooperateislington.com/

The background work that they did, in terms of legal research, may answer more of your questions. :D

@Nicholas Frealand Beyond Psychology are in the process of closing unfortunately.

Brighton-based Psychology Co-op really interesting https://thepsychologycooperative.com/

Big player in Bolton 1point North (working with local authorities) https://www.1pointbolton.org.uk/

Also Oxford based children's counselling services Phoenix Co-op (worker co-op) https://www.phoenixcoop.co.uk/

Also try a word search in our web listing directory for more eg: psychotherapy or counselling

If you are after grants, then a worker co-op Co Ltd by Guarantee (CLG) with charitable objects will probably suffice. I always recommend people research the specific funders they are interested in to get a feel if they are going to be grant reliant. If you are a CLG it is possible to amend your governing document to become a CIC in future but you can't revert from a CIC to "ordinary" CLG so I always say that if you are in doubt, opt for a CLG.

Nic, as it happens I am also working currently with https://www.learningandwellbeing.org/ who are a CIC since incorporation about 4 years ago. Kathryn Gibb there might be up for a chat about 'why CIC' and what effect it has had in practice?

Currently working with a group who actively decided they wanted to be a worker co-op CIC, which I am assisting them with registering. It's mainly been around the availability of funding they've looked at but wanting to have worker control rather than community control or some charitable set up.

Hey folks, this thread is very interesting and relevant to me as I am heloing a group in Scotland decide on their legal form. They want to provide affordable ketamine-assisted psychotherapy, probably alongside more traditional forms of therapy. One of their group is their fundraiser who is pushing the charity model to get the tax benefits, but they really want to have worker owenrship and control, so there is a fundamental tension.

On balance, I have been suggesting that a CIC might be a good fit for them as it will allow them to fundraise whilst still be a worker coop and offer commercial services. But reading this thread has me wondering.. I also wonder specifically about them getting approval for CIC given the potentially controversial nature of their offering.

I haven't seen an issue at OFN UK with being a CIC and getting significant grant funding from major players, but I agree re doing your due diligence on funding pots before choosing CIC route, and have told them as such.

@Nathan Brown (Co-op Culture) How does a worker co-op Co Ltd by Guarantee (CLG) with charitable objects work in practice? Is there somewhere I can read up about this option as that might be a good one for them.

@Aaron Hirtenstein good to have identified the risk of controversy with the CIC Regulator in advance - I'm aware of a previous group who applied to be a CIC a few years back, and in order to reject it, the Regulator re-defined their own interpretations of the word 'community'.
Which means that they now define and test the primary 'community of interest' for any CIC to be geographic first. Which means that if the CIC has referenced any specific place in their objects or supporting application, they need the Regulator's agreement to start to offer activity anywhere else...

@Aaron Hirtenstein It's no different from a worker co-op CLG except you make sure the objects fit a charitable framework (see guidance from Charity commission). For some funders this is sufficient to interest/placate them. If you're going down that route you would probably want to remove any reference to profit distribution to workers, as that might not be seen favourably by the type of funder requiring charitable objects.

A few more to add to the list:

Rhyze Mushrooms Co-op (we've recently had a commission to support them)

Propagate Scotland CIC (not seen proof on website but apparently are)

Agroecology Co-op (Lauriston Farm)

Add to the list:

Organiclea CIC

Aral Growers CIC

Perhaps a Community Benefit Society with statutory asset lock should also be considered? We've got so used to thinking of CBS as a model for community shares that we forget its wider relevance. Indeed it's been argued that the CIC might never have been invented if there had been wider awareness of the CBS model at the time.

@Martin Meteyard really interesting point - especially as as a Society, CBS' are regulated on values (and the original CIC legislation forced enterprises adopting it to compromise on values around accountability to others, and self-responsibility);
also helps to make better sense of why the CIC didn't actually introduce or offer anything that was actually new in terms of features (and which weren't already being used by co-ops and social businesses using company forms for the previous 20 years)?

@Martin Meteyard I made that point when the CIC was released in a number of public forums. The current disconnect between Companies House/HMRC and FCA doesn't help matters. A company (or CIC) gets issued a UTR pretty much straight away on registration, a Society enters a Kafka-esque world where it can't even get through to someone to ask why it hasn't got a UTR because it's not recognised as existing. There have been various hacks round this but all are time intensive and produce different results or different people. Hopefully the upcoming Law Commission review of Societies will help improve things.

It's also difficult to restrict a CBS to workers and get past the FCA. Of course if we get the asset lock for Co-op Societies we won't need to mess with CBS.