@triciafromphilly I have “nudged” Cal from another discussion to put him in touch with Occupy Sacramento for sharing info on local trainers. I will also e-mail him.

Let's talk up what we'll do on July 30.

On June 1, Sharon Smith sent this (a list of training orgs):
http://untraining.org/downloads/Anti_Racism_Training_Programs_US_1_.pdf
(The one that I took 9 years ago is the one that's now being offered by Training For Change.)

And I believe that Delphine has been in dialogue with the Catalyst group about coming on the 30th. (I don't currently know what stage she's at with them.)

I think the 30th is going to be creative and hopefully influence our movement from here on out. Folk should use this discussion to talk freely about these issues, and not feel that they have to be politically correct, or such. We actually have two prospective sites for the work and both will allow camping that night.

For those who want to participate, and actually build the event, see the new Ethnic Sensitivity / Anti-Racism group. Join it if you want to sincerely make this deep change in our psyches.

We'll be able to march from the training to the Capitol.

I hope Delphine will be at our Sac Natgat meeting today. Let's find out where she is on this, and if she hasn't finalized things with Catalyst, what it would take to nail this down. I believe they asked for a donation for $2,000 which would be tough to raise, but they would do the training anyway, even if the money isn't raised.

I hear Lisa above. I think that money is not at issue anymore.

I think the soul / heart beginning of the Gathering will be on Wed July 30. The ethnic sensitivity training is going to be a rich event, it would seem. Our most promising site can accommodate many people and overnight and Thu morning they'll be able to march to the Capitol. Press conferences will have preceded them on Mon and Tue, July 28, 29.

If indeed it is a rich event, it will require lots of discussion on this thread. If we get lots of discussion on this thread, then persons will gravitate to the Ethnic Sensitivity Preparation group. Those people, who want to build the event and want to be there on Wed, will decide the final format of the event, including any expenses.

I have my (nonrefundable) ticket for Tuesday evening. The last few days, I have been almost wishing that I didn’t—but I am seeing glimmers of coöperation that could re-energize me.

Talking it up without being politically correct! Please forgive my male ego for continuing. ;-|(

The reason no National political group has ever begun by eliminating racism, sexism, and ethnic imperialism, is because the three are actually dissembled surplus value. To understand surplus value, you have to do geo-mathematics, which is opposite the type of mathematics done. To give a hint: mathematics is done with the metaphor x/1 (x divided by 1). Geo-mathematics is done with the metaphor 1/x (1 divided by x). The discovery of surplus value happened in chapters of 1-11 of Marx's Das Kapital. The x/1 or 1/x business is in Chapter 9.

Folk may think I'm only confusing the issue by mentioning surplus value. If so, and if I'm genuine, can we unravel the confusion? IMHO the “ethnic sensitivity” training and thereby the the gathering, depend on us making the Wed event, rich indeed! If we can't talk it up, we shouldn't do it. We don't need to be politically correct. While we must have a desire to participate both horizontally and vertically.

All this aside, isn't it true that if Blacks, marginalized groups, and the USA's unique Sovereign Nationals are not intimately involved, our success will be limited accordingly? Can we all get to Sacramento by early Wed morning and help each other do our homework?

The question remains, barely discussed, certainly not answered, do we white people really want to allow other people to share our privilege? We may literally be incapable of giving back what we've stolen.Just as we are incapable of fixing our world, according as we stay on our current trajectory. We still have time to change. Talk up our ethnicity training. It won't happen otherwise. It won't happen simply by bringing in a trainer!

I look forward to being in Sacramento on wed and offer to help here, both with training and event calm inner core. For me, people here are good, people and things at the banks are not good. Thru work, education and background I see how to refocus mis-understanding, frustration... to excitement and hope.

Thank you Sally and Brad and Sea.
Who else will step up?

An Indian friend said we should act against racists, not racism. Is this an important distinction? For all people? Or just for white people?

There is racism in our very institutions; we must call it out when we see it. Individual racists need to be addressed very differently—not sure how you deal with the supremacists of any group, most individual racists would deny it, I think. Back in the 1970s, in my opinion only, the Black-Panther types had more of a point in being exclusive and afrocentric; Archie Bunker was funny because folks like him were more open and less unacceptable. Other than the supremacists, folks today more uniformly realize how unacceptable racism is. Just my opinion. (Ducking )

How about live streaming the July 30 event so more people can benefit?

Has any outreach been done to Occupy groups who have done this kind of group work before?

The convo is going in circles with the same loud voices focusing on the minutia & not the skill share effort itself.

Justin, can you list some Occupy groups to reach out to? We can contact them in the Outreach party tomorrow (where we work concurrently online to reach out to Occupy groups) The list we are using is just geographical, and we don't ave that many affinity groups listed.

or reach out yourself and have them contact the Sacramento folks?

Justin, I'm a newcomer and just becoming aware of hurt feelings and people dropping out and the need for conflict resolution work. From that perspective, your use of the terms "going in circles," "same loud voices" and "minutia" suggests to me that you disagree with certain people's way of working in the group and that you're feeling irritated and want to see more progress toward the group's stated goals. In this kind of situation, if people don't speak up about their feelings and wants, they end up attacking each other or dropping out. This working group, especially, needs good conflict resolution skills, since talking about racism, white privilege, etc, arouses such strong feelings. Is there going to be any conflict resolution training or support available for resolving these situations?

I just had the painful experience of a conflict with a friend (or maybe "former friend"). She and I don't have a conflict resolution process and whatever skills I have deserted me at crunch time. I was afraid to be honest with her about my feelings, but the resentment came through despite my efforts to be cool and reasonable. So we ended up getting defensive, attacking each other, and each trying to make the other person the one in the wrong. Sorry state of affairs.

I understand that someone is working on lining up some conflict resolution expertise for the Gathering. That's fortunate - I think negative feelings MUST be handled because they can destroy the group and the work..

Yes, Carolyn. On Wednesday, we have a site to hold the "training". Maybe you can help us define it. There's so many ways to discriminate that hurt and we "white" people have a huge burden. Yet I wouldn't want to confuse discrimination for some choices and taste.

However, whether we discuss in detail gender issues, or issues of domineering (often patriarchal) power, or specific issues so that Black, Native American, Immigrant, or other groups who genuinely feel that our discussions and structure and style and decisions leave them out; that we can reform ourselves so they are always built in, is not yet decided. I truly hope that you can provide some guidance.

Yes, Carolyn. On Wednesday, we have a site to hold the "training". Maybe you can help us define it. There's so many ways to discriminate that hurt and we "white" people have a huge burden. Yet I wouldn't want to confuse discrimination for some choices and taste.

However, whether we discuss in detail gender issues, or issues of domineering (often patriarchal) power, or specific issues so that Black, Native American, Immigrant, or other groups who genuinely feel that our discussions and structure and style and decisions leave them out; that we can reform ourselves so they are always built in, is not yet decided. I truly hope that you can provide some guidance.

So sounds like there is something slated for Wednesday during NatGat?

Yes. It may seem out there or even static. However its very dynamic requiring everyone's input. If persons are awkward with the subject, there's the "Ethinic Imperialism... " discussion and the "Reparations for ... " discussion, and the "Women's Council" discussion, and the original "Four piece" discussion.

Can you share details?

The details will be shared when they come ouit of the hearts and minds of the people who want to participate in the training. Participate by being there in good faith. Participate by discussing now on Loomio how "white" people benefit from their privilege. How Blacks, Indians, Immigrants feel left out. How men oppress women.

Only persons who can admit their privilege and work to balance things out, will learn the details. Persons must share details of their determination to change themselves in ways never done before.

It will be a very hard training. Few people will be able to do it. Yet that's what the world needs. White people to give back, to share the details of what has been stolen. To share the details of the privileges that others can't have because we have them.

I benefit enormously from white privilege, male privilege, and USA privilege. I didn't choose this. It was built into my situation at my birth.
I grew up playing second clarinet to a Black first clarinetist. It didn't phase me. I'm a good clarinetist but not that good and I was happy to be second first to the first first. I grew up in the Unitarian Church. Strangely, we organized a LRY conference, and it turned out that the coference was about the civil-rights movement, and I didn't even know that that was what it was about!

Many people are "carefully taught" how to gain their self-esteem by subtly and unknowingly putting people, whom they can call different, down. I've never considered that it would be hard to share (its not something that can be given up, just as its virtually impossible to change your skin color) privilege with others, but I can't do it unless other people do it.
Its true that many under-privileged groups don't want our help, per se, only that we should level the playing field, so they can achieve by their own merit.
We have to do something that has simply never been done before. With little or no guidance. Duh. Go figure!

People keep asking why this third gathering (three's a charm!) is in Sacramento. Its because its the one place in the world where unseen forces operate to allow us to change the world, by changing ourselves. Awkwardly, if we don't do it, imagine who will be let down?

Each of us on Loomio needs to find more to say about this subject, and then our Gathering will rock the world.

It's pretty simple. We want this skill share, we are in agreement about that. Sounds like it's time to start Occupying the call to action & set up things.

Seems you did not read the proposal @oswgwhe

Blocking was not an option, but bait for trolls.

Please take the time to read the proposal & see what the vote options signify.

:)

I will be in Sacramento on the 30th; I expect to attend the training. I am already falling behind on other NatGat obligations, so I am afraid to take on more (especially just before my UUA GA participation), but will gladly support in any way I can.

All right...let me interject for one minute (or two)s...what Oswgwhe is talking about (in his formulas) is the part of Marxism known as The Fetishism of Commodities...this is the part where people's interests, thoughts, labor, etc. become a commodity within themselves to be exploited by the rich (or bourgoise). If we can focus on a common ally, as in the fight against Capitalism as helping to further racism, among other things, it keeps the tone neutral enough to be able to deal with each other. I too benefit from white privilege, however, I have suffered in gender and class issues...so we all can relate our particular woes in a class that you are suggesting on Wed. but it will probably be problematic as well as trying to find peace. I like the stack ideal, as far as putting minority women first, then minority men, then "white" women, then "white" men last...it is difficult for the men to swallow, but it is a constant reminder of who is really at the bottom of the stratification. Perhaps we can stick to that as well? The General Assembly is in general difficult to be inclusive, but having smaller groups, and/or breakout sessions where people can be included also includes diversity! Just a thought...

Great ideas. Step up and we'll talk about how to go forward once the group forms.

Please re-read the proposal when you get a chance.

Yes, Toad’s suggestion of a progressive stack is a good one. In a smaller group, where all know each other, a good facilitator can draw out a member who hesitates to speak up—hard even in a small national group where folks do not know each other, but breakout groups are generally easier to speak in, and simply by size give folks more of a chance to be heard.

@sallyg Please read the proposal?

The details of the assembly will be figured out by those who step up- not in this discussion. ;)

Toad, doing the opposite of the current paradigm -- in this case, attempting to reverse the order of the stratification -- isn't a different paradigm, it's just the opposite pole in the polarity of the existing paradigm. The facilitators I've seen who do progressive stack well don't through any group the back of the line; they make sure that a dominant group doesn't dominate. And there are plenty of white folks whose voices don't get heard and are repressed. And there are even white men who live under oppression. Making those who were in the dominant group become the subordinates just perpetuates the same old repression, just applied differently.
It strikes me as odd that white people are trying to redefine this, without benefit of counsel of people of color. No group I've been has successfully brought about a real transformation like this without all the relevant stakeholder groups participating in its creation/re-creation.

Good points Cal. Thanks. This is the sort of discussion that I hoped would ensue. Certainly we need many groups involved now in planning and participation.

Folks. There is a proposal going on. Seems folks are spending more time talking about personal stories & adjusting formatting than participating constructively.

@oswgwhe blocking is not an option- you vote if you want to step up.

can you please read the proposal?

How would I know @sea is white if he did not tell me?
And I do not think @sea has much of a male privilege, if anything it seems like a handicap for him .

Conflict resolution is important , however.
And so is team work building, and empathy training is important too

@oswgwhe Opps sorry I forgot your new name.