Friday, June 22 8am in Colorado Springs (mountain time in USA) --> https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?month=6&day=22&year=2018&p1=398&p2=248&iv=0

So 4pm CEST. Noted! :)

@mattnoyes one thing I've found with Ranked choice is that it starts to get unwieldly when there are more than 8-10 choices, so it can be helpful to limit it to "rank your top 8 or 10" when there are more than that.

I was wondering about that -- I was thinking top 5, initially, but let's try with 8 or 10.

Top 5 would probably yield a good mix

Do you know how to do it, or want me to edit it?

With so many options, there is a chance none of your top five would make it into the mix, right? Ten gives you a better shot?

Updated it to allow for 10 choices.

Matt, can you re-vote, it looks like you voted before I changed it to only include top 10

Revoted, but no change?

Okay friends, a reminder that our discussion of Ours to Hack and to Own is a week from Firday, June 22nd, 8:00am U.S. Mountain Time. The top five chapters we want to discuss are:
Michel Bauwens and Vasilis Kostakis: Why Platform Co-ops Should Be Open Co-ops
Janelle Orsi: Three Essential Building Blocks for Your Platform Cooperative
Mayo Fuster Morell: Toward a Theory of Value for Platform Cooperatives
David Bollier: From Open Access to Digital Commons
Micky Metts: Meet Your Friendly Neighborhood Tech Co-op
These are all incredibly relevant to ongoing discussions about social.coop, Mastodon, github/lab, and more. Let's use riot.im with etherpad and jitsi.

https://riot.im/app/#/room/#ourstohackandown:matrix.org

@mattnoyes Does it matter that I haven’t the faintest idea what etherpad or jitsi might be? Are they tied to an OS? Am a chat room novice, also - so likely to take a back seat.

Our meeting starts at 8 am Mtn time. I will join you late, closer to 8:30 am Mtn time.

@mikeh8 For the chat, I will post the link again a day before the chat. You just open the webpage in your browser (there is an app, too). You do not need to register, but you have the option of choosing a screen name. You will see three things: an Etherpad window, a Jitsi window, and below them a chat area. Etherpad is just a simple note-taking tool so we can see the agenda and take notes as we go. Jitsi is an online chat tool (like Skype or hangouts) that is also very easy to use. (If we have bandwidth issues, I may switch us to Zoom (also very easy to use). I suggest checking out the Riot.im chat room before we meet, so you can get used to the interface: https://riot.im/app/#/room/#ourstohackandown:matrix.org

Have read the Morell and happy to open on it, will read at least the other four top-rated chapters too. Just four of us in the room?

Thanks @derekkozel for coming alongside on ch 36. I've read all five now . . and 'value' comes up a lot across the field. So the theme of ch 36 is general, rather than chapter-specific. And quite fuzzy? To discuss.

I'm playing catch-up, having just found the reading group a few days ago. I've skimmed chapter 36 and will properly take notes tonight and read the other four before the call.

I'm sorry. I was expecting to be able to get out of work a little early to make this, but some tasks have come up and I won't be able to make it. I'll be sure to plan farther ahead for the next meet up. I don't know if the next book has been chosen, but I would like to give a vote for Humanizing the Economy, I did a recent read through (part of the reason I'm here) and would enjoy being able to discuss it.

The meeting is live now on Zoom https://zoom.us/j/743371724

Thanks for a thought provoking and mind bending reading group discussion:)
Notes from the reading group can be found here: https://scalar.vector.im/etherpad/p/!IOUzXVGKiEdvSEsCAd_matrix.org

Here are my notes on chapter 34, Morell, Towards a theory of value. They include some post-meeting add-ins.
Topics are:
- 1 Platform coops and libertarian-socialist commitments
- 2 Morell’s project, the P2P Value Directory project - Platform developers vs platform users?
- 3 Value in the storefront, value in the back office?
- 4 Is social.coop competing with corporate platforms? Operating both open and closed platform-space
- 5 Adjudication of conflicts
- 6 Intellectual property, copyfair, livelihood
- 7 How much does code forking matter in social.coop?
- 8 What’s the nature of the P2P commons that social.coop is cultivating?

Here's the call link, see you in a little more than an hour!

https://meet.jit.si/RoundTwo

Sorry my bad! It's 10pm CEST not 8pm CEST :) Sorry everyone for the mistake!

So sorry, I saw this and I was still on the road, so I thought I won't make it! Missed it again! I thought my calculation was wrong...

The agenda and notes are here: https://riot.im/app/#/room/#ourstohackandown:matrix.org

@mattnoyes @michelekipiel Here are notes following our reading group session yesterday. Thoughts on paid work, economic outcomes and multipliers, social use-value of the social.coop platform architecture (much bigger than UX), facilitative skills and commitments, the value of the mix of platforms within social.coop. Thoughts on commons development as distinct from (in partnership with) the coop-meets-FLOSS mission @michelbauwens1 @staccotroncoso Absolutely without prejudice to the urgent need to strengthen the tech base of social.coop Mastodon, and give relief to the over-taxed tech core of volunteers, tooted by @robertbenjamin in Mastodon just as I was uploading this (which I have boosted).

@asimong You might find echoes in this note, of what was being discussed a few weeks back in Commons Transition UK (support networks/face to face)? Would be good to know whether you feel this time it gets anywhere nearer to your issue? Or to concerns of CoTech maybe? Best wishes

great initiative, really glad to see progress and hard work, will read with interest

Great stuff! Thank you for taking the time to formalize some of the million thoughts we threw around during the call :)

There was another million thoughts about whether we can realistically expect to drive netarchical capital off the edge of the Discworld using forces of production composed of federated cooperatively governed instances of FLOS Software! A commons of platforms. I'm trying to write a note about that as well. It will take a minute or two! I don't know if your brain's still aching? Mine is :thinking:

So much to read, write, think, so little time (mainly due to the fact I need to sell my labour for salary under capitalism)! I think we're doing great stuff, though, both as an instance and as individual thinkers :)

It does make a difference that I'm 'retired from work' as they jokingly say. Back in wage-earning days I had to work this hard just to put food in the family fridge and pay the 'cultural and emotional rent' on my office workspace :slight_frown:

Readers in this part of the thread maybe should also take a look at support networks with a face-to-face element over in Commons Transition?

Does anyone know how to invite one thread/group into another, in Loomio? I know how to invite 'outside' individuals to a thread. But not how to embrace a whole set of Loomio folks, in one invitation. Will try to check this out with the Loomio devs. It's basic community literacy?

perhaps @staccotroncoso (+staccotroncoso?) can help with the loomio query, or point to someone who can ?

Loomio devs say . . . The answer to the trans-group linkup query is . . 'outsider' individuals can be invited to a thread, by the thread coordinator/s. But not entire sets of people (eg entire threads in other groups). Invited persons can be Loomio members (invited by Loomio ID) or others (invited by email address).

@michelekipiel @mattnoyes @emido If this discussion hasn't gone stale . . I doubt I'm going to manage to write the note I was thinking of in this comment. Especially, I was thinking of engaging with Dymitri Kleiner's Telekommunist market-anarchism perspective. But I have had an exchange with @michelbauwens1 about class(es), P2P politics and the transition beyond capitalism. Below are three pieces by Michel that bear on the social.coop project, not just in a general way but also in simple ways - like, whether social.coop folks can realistically expect to get paid for social.coop work, in the longer term; or whether the project exists essentially in 'volunteer' space. The recent precariat piece is specially interesting?

• Class & capital in peer production, 2009 - attached goes properly into political economy and arrives at questions of strategy (peer-producers vis a vis capitalist firms)
• The production of peer-production theory, 2012 discusses different takes on P2P and post-capitalism, including Kleiner's.
• Review of Foti's "General theory of the precariat", 2018 explores revolution and other modes of transformation, and strategic relations between companies, salaried workers and precarious workers.

Thanks for sharing, it will be a pleasure to read these!