Deleting threads on Loomio
(edited to be more positive from my previous attempt)
sometimes people want to delete threads on loomio for various reasons. but that can leave some people who posted in them feeling hurt and also lose valuable information and debate which would then have to be repeated.
what guidelines can we develop to make sure these conflicting needs are managed?
i think the preferred response to a desire to delete depends on the reason and the content.
posts only the writer commented on - ok to delete
posts the writer got a few short comments on that don't hold much value as standalone posts - ok to delete
posts with a lengthy debate between the writer and other people directly challenging the original post - ok to delete
posts with lengthy debate but with some posts with useful information - suggest to repost the valid information or give the writer of that information chance to do so before deletion
posts that start discussions between other members that don't involve the original author - not ok to delete , best to get one of the other people in the thread to adopt it instead if the original writer wish's to remove themself, they can then remove all there comments too
what do others think? i will update this list as people suggest things below
Amandasm Wed 19 Jun 2019 8:11AM
If it was deleted by the person who started the thread, perhaps discuss it with them first?
Tom Allen Wed 19 Jun 2019 8:27AM
@amandasm I am trying to , but do you think even if they say they don't want it posted it is ok to post the comments without their name or some other option? Personally I feel as it was posted publicly and automatically sent to all commenters as email, it already belongs to the community and we should be able to discuss it
Amir Khadr Wed 19 Jun 2019 8:03AM
Hi Tom, I've been quite busy since Nest with other wordly urgencies, but thank you for this.
I think this is really a gordian knot for us nestlings and can't be avoided. I echo your sentiments although rather than censorship I feel we're dealing with immaturity and lack of awareness of the wider consequences of one's own actions.
I refuse to engage or support hierarchical dynamics and I feel we should aim at creating a series of protocols that would "automatically" prevent this from happening.
I'm not sure Loomio is the right platform for this - maybe a perfect one doesn't exists and we have to do with what we have, and definitely Facebook generates lots of emotional noise that is easy to be sucked into and it's hard to make it constructive at times, but it also is the place where everyone is.
About the reposting option, I think we should honour the person's who deleted their own thread by NOT posting their contributions and keep everyone else's only.
Cheers.
Amir @The Bridge
Tom Allen Wed 19 Jun 2019 8:25AM
@amirkhadr Fully agree with you . It's also worth noting that loomio can be run with very different settings when hosted privately. The hosted version is much like Facebook in my view. The Borderland for example allows everyone to undelete posts and edit each others posts too! The emphasise there is that this is all tracked and can be reversed too, much like Wikipedia style systems. I look forward to more work on growing nest into a less hierarchical space to benefit all :)
Amir Khadr Wed 19 Jun 2019 8:59AM
Thanks for the tech-info, then it seems that is really only a matter of intent and how to translate the 11 principles into a technical configuration of loomio.
That could be a interesting project to take on:
- Initiate a new loomio account
- configure it in line with the 11 principles
- Have threads for simulated debates (play out the what if game, ie: the troll, the personal insult, the heated thread, the useless waste of time, the kitten meme)
- Have threads of recalibration were we discuss how we could have a better configuration
- draw conclusions
- propose a change the configuration in this Nest group (continuity) or propose to create a new one or propose to use the one where the simulation has started.
What do you think, @tomallen4 ?
Stephen Brannigan Thu 20 Jun 2019 3:21PM
I don't know anywhere near enough about Loomio to create the new forum you're suggesting @amirkhadr , but I'd be happy to role play as a user doing all the negative things you suggested. Accordingly I'd try to get around any restrictions put in place to test the systems, so we can be sure they work. @tomallen4 Did you miss Amirs reply above?
Tom Allen Thu 20 Jun 2019 4:32PM
@amirkhadr That is exactly when I intend to do in August when i get back from europe, thanks for articulating it so well :)
Adrian Godwin Wed 19 Jun 2019 8:45AM
I did note a comment that appeared to be a continuation of what seems to be a personal vendetta. Might have been enough reason to close the thread, though I'd personally prefer such things to be locked rather than deleted - it leaves the evidence up to allow people to make their own assessments.
The comment (though I could be confused, I haven't looked for it elsewhere) was something about autocratic moderation. To be honest, I think moderation is an unfortunate necessity and if you're going to have a moderator, autocracy is pretty much a necessity. Some groups have a team of moderators to make this less personal, as the targets of moderation often get offended.
I support moderation that removes personal attacks and useless polemic (I referred recently to politics an religion, two topics that tend to generate more heat than light). I prefer it to be by threadlocking but tbh I think it's a matter for the moderator. Their policy should ideally be explicit and generally agreed but I have no problem with summary execution if it's called for.
Tom Allen Wed 19 Jun 2019 8:56AM
@adriangodwin in this case the entire page was removed , removing totally unrelated debates between other members. I'm also interested in why you think moderation is needwd to remove anything but that which is illegal?
Deleted User 路 Wed 19 Jun 2019 7:22AM
@tomallen4 That would be helpful if you could repost it 馃憤