Wipe all income taxes - and let people work and feed their families
If an SME in NZ is making $100,000 profit each year, they will pay $33,000 of that back in taxes. If such income taxes were wiped, they would instead purchase some more planet or office space and/or hire 1-2 new part time workers, paying them both what they were previously receiving on a benefit. The power to tax is the power to destroy. I spent 5 years working in a large Asian Country where income taxes were under 5%, and EVERBODY was working, shopping and feeding their families. Income taxes across the West are destroying our economies - subduing / killing off economic activity - and forcing more and more people into the welfare system. Wiping income taxes altogether would allow people to find jobs, work, and feed their families. Small and large businesses alike would have more funds to hire more staff, soaking up the army of welfare recipients that our socialist/ communist Government has built up over the decades, and people who do work then of course get to keep all of it also, adding a clear incentive for them to give up the weed and computer games on Monday-Friday and actually go and get jobs. The result is an economy at capacity, encouraging and rewarding work and innovation, soaking up the welfare state and benefit payment expenses almost overnight, not to mention the millions saved by closing down most of the government funded social welfare/warfare apparatus. All taxation is theft, so lets start by removing all income taxes. Let people work and feed their children.
Kenneth Kopelson Sun 29 Jun 2014 9:29AM
@dennisdorney Value-based Economy also has the "state" create currency, but unlike the system PositiveMoney proposes, it would not be a predetermined amount that invariably will be wrong. Also, PM still has taxes, which is a huge problem. Basically, VBE takes all the proposals of Positive Money and takes them further, such that life would TRULY change. VBE has a "pull" system for money creation, so no "all powerful" group of financial gurus sit around and decide how much money should be in the economy. Instead, politicians work with their constituents to decide what services and projects are going to be done to improve the society/world, and they simply do them. As people get paid for working on these societal projects and services, the money to pay them is created. What is most important, is that a system of Value-based Accounting is used to calculate the value of all that is being proposed and done. This includes the Estimated Value to Society (EVS) and the Estimated Value to the Market (EVM). Value-based Economy is a Mixed Economic System, combining a Societism economy to introduce new money for creating societal value, and a Capitalism economy for circulating the money that was created. Societism, by the way, is NOT socialism or anything like it.
Kenneth Kopelson Sun 29 Jun 2014 9:32AM
@dennisdorney What is also very important about VBE is the mechanisms for handling the loss of value, such that the currency maintains a rock-stable value. These mechanisms are very important to allow the economy to tackle huge projects, and also to handle experimentation and failure as something that is not negative or to be avoided. There IS value is failure if people learn from it, so that success can be achieved.
Poll Created Sun 13 Jul 2014 7:08AM
Tax the working class less and the Corporations more Closed Mon 18 Aug 2014 6:08AM
The working class are being taxed into poverty while the big Corporations just keep making more and more money for their shareholders. How about taxing on some sort of scale so the working class can actually feed their kids and survive as opposed to just existing?
Results
| Results | Option | % of points | Voters | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
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Agree | 33.3% | 17 |
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| Abstain | 7.8% | 4 |
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| Disagree | 25.5% | 13 |
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| Block | 33.3% | 17 |
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| Undecided | 0% | 566 |
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51 of 617 people have participated (8%)
Brian Welman
Sun 13 Jul 2014 7:08AM
As I said in the proposal
Damon Horrell
Sun 13 Jul 2014 7:34AM
Yes of course but just watch the neo-liberal fascists block this proposal.
Ulrich Schmid
Sun 13 Jul 2014 8:05AM
As there is no more income tax it needs a basic change to the existing system. We need an income for every person resident in NZ. This income comes from the govt. The money comes from increased GST. The Swiss are having a referendum on this very soon
Esther Cook
Sun 13 Jul 2014 10:22AM
Disagree with no income tax at all except those below about $15000 . Thinking a transaction tax take some of the tax burden or Levys
Nathaniel Currier
Sun 13 Jul 2014 6:33PM
Taxing foreign corporations would be even better. I wonder if there is a way to thwart shell games in this case; maybe want >50% ownership by NZ citizens in order to avoid the foreign tax? But in any case, a tax on work is the worst possible tax.
Nick Moylan
Sun 13 Jul 2014 9:35PM
Need a better worded proposal. Seems emotive and we need a more concrete proposal for how this would work.
David Johnston
Sun 13 Jul 2014 10:34PM
Proposal is vague.
David Johnston
Sun 13 Jul 2014 10:34PM
+1 to Nick's objection.
Dennis Dorney
Sun 13 Jul 2014 11:38PM
I agree although I dont like the wording. It should relate to taxing the top 10% more. Introducing "Corporations" is a red herring. Tax for businesses is a totally separate issue.
Kenneth Kopelson
Mon 14 Jul 2014 12:45PM
I think I've made my views on taxation quite clear. I've "seen the light" to a new a better way of funding governments, so now, anything less seems quite distasteful. Plus, you tax companies more, you simply drive business out of the country.
Rob Macleod
Wed 23 Jul 2014 7:45AM
Think beyond personal impact - we live in societies and need to care for those less fortunate - taxation of workers enables this even with its imperfections
Colin Davies
Sun 27 Jul 2014 10:56PM
won't make any difference
Amanda Tunstall
Fri 1 Aug 2014 5:07AM
My first post in Loomio was about PAYE brackets & how they need to change. we currently only have 3 tax brackets, i feel that more tax brackets is fairer. first $20k tax free, each $20k tax bracket changed, starting at 5% until at 50% for $500k +
Nicholas Adamson
Tue 5 Aug 2014 1:23PM
Government is a good provider of collective resources and services, these need to be funded.
Nicholas Adamson
Tue 5 Aug 2014 1:25PM
Government is a good provider of collective resources and services, these need to be funded. Also there is a weird conflict between the description and current decisions.
Paul McGreal
Tue 5 Aug 2014 9:23PM
Impossible economically and socially. Lateral solutions are the only ones that will work for change within an already functioning system. It has become distorted, so the solution is to isolate the distortions and treat them localy. Not difficult.
William Asiata
Wed 6 Aug 2014 7:49AM
I'm sure we could work out a more comprehensive policy than this, as displayed in many parallel tax discussions.
Marc Whinery
Wed 6 Aug 2014 9:01AM
A general complaint about taxes isn't a proposal.
Matthew Coulthurst
Wed 6 Aug 2014 11:45PM
Needs a lot more work before there is even a proposal to be discussed. Shows poor understanding of taxation and the creation of poverty.
Stephen Dickson
Thu 7 Aug 2014 9:52AM
And take those extra profits, so money offshore. We have enough trouble with that now.
Ross Scholes
Fri 8 Aug 2014 11:59PM
A non-solution to a deeper problem.
Colin England
Sat 9 Aug 2014 12:11AM
As much as I agree that the working class needs more money the fix isn't cutting their taxes but increasing their incomes. That means a higher minimum wage and/or a UBI.
Dan van Wylich
Sat 9 Aug 2014 10:05PM
Giving more money to the high income earners is not a solution.
Sam McPherson
Mon 11 Aug 2014 8:51AM
not everyone can work, even if they want to, read up on technological unemployment. what 16 workers used to do in a forest a warratah & 1 driver does. its impossible to employ any entire population. its never been done, & it should not be our goal
Center, center politics
Tue 12 Aug 2014 8:26AM
Nice little rant and although I agree in principal nothing here reads like policy.
The Working Poor Class
Wed 13 Aug 2014 3:55AM
The Working Class need to be paid better with end of year bonuses & Management should ideally hold Children's Xmas parties for their employees families.
GST is theft. Admin fees are theft. Disconnection fees are theft. ACC levies are theft...
Chance Jonathan Baker
Thu 14 Aug 2014 6:36AM
Taxes are killing us and taking all our money.
Maximum N-a
Thu 14 Aug 2014 8:08AM
Income tax is oppressive. GST creates too much paper work. Use a simple 1% electronic transaction tax that is fair on everyone, unavoidable, requires no policing, raises twice as much as the current tax system. Crypto currencies are the future!
David Wong
Thu 14 Aug 2014 8:22PM
I don't mind paying tax and helping out the fellow man
John Martin
Thu 14 Aug 2014 8:55PM
Give citizens the same tax structures and opportunities as corporations to evade and avoid paying tax. OR make corps pay their share.
ben cooney
Sun 17 Aug 2014 6:06AM
The corporates need to pay a "hone heke tax" aka the "robin hood tax" . Nations in the E.U are doing this, its not that much of a radical proposition.
Yadran Bilish
Sun 17 Aug 2014 8:26AM
I would support the targeted removal of taxes on low incomes.... But to blanket remove the tax on all spares the 1%.
Ahmad Hammadeh Mon 4 Aug 2014 2:03PM
I actually don't mind paying taxes, but I think the tax system needs to be defined by finance experts and not lawyers.
I've lived in several countries where people don't pay tax, and I think that Tax works as long as it reasonable and we know where its going
Colin England Tue 12 Aug 2014 7:37AM
It's estimated that technology today could replace close to 50% of the jobs presently done by people. Over the next few years that's going to increase to 75% plus. There's already a machine that will replace burger flippers (http://www.gizmag.com/hamburger-machine/25159/).
What do we do when we have 75% unemployment?
Do we keep looking for more and more worthless service industry jobs or do we get those people trained and into the sciences including social sciences?
With that in mind do we want to keep a socio-economic system that only rewards the owners of capital?
Chance Jonathan Baker Thu 14 Aug 2014 6:37AM
Or at least bloody lower it
Helen Mahoney Thu 14 Aug 2014 11:26PM
Hiccup with the "submit" button...hence two "positions"
Dennis Dorney · Sun 29 Jun 2014 7:52AM
@wadevuglar. I am comfortable with either. The main difference is that Social Credit would have the Reserve Bank create our money supply in the form of low-interest or interest free loans. This means that after every loan has been repaid a new and probably larger loan would have to be created.
PositiveMoney would simply create new money as the need arises. The money remains in circulation. There i little effective difference except that the Social Credit version is politically easier to sell.