Rebellions aren't easy: where do we go from here?

Many thanks for sharing - I really love that LRB take, with one exception being that I think it continues the press-perpetuated myth of Roger's leadership. Not that I think this is a total fantasy - if enough people believe he 'leads XR', then of course that means he does in effect, and vice versa. And obviously it depends on what you mean by leadership - but in my own experience I haven't seen much actual reason for it (outside media treating him as such) since at least before April.

Whether or not that's a good thing... I guess I'd say that to me the lack of guiding vision and strategy is much more a symtpom of our lost cohesion than vice versa; and that whatever Roger's credentials as a 'progenitor', he is not capable of helping to bring the internal (or indeed international) cohesion that we need.

If it gives you any hope, I'd at least say that if we do start trying to act like an NGO (as is very much a possibility), we wouldn't manage: too many people would leave... It's quite a nice fear to hear, though, insofar as I very much share it.

Hi, just joined and no idea how Loomio works but hope to find out as I go. Your article really resonated with me, I've been having similar thoughts.

Thanks! I guess the next step is for those of us who have these worries to work on some steps for addressing them

I'd love to have a response to my posting on 2nd May.

Hi! Sorry, I had a busy period!

Thanks! Wonderful to read you here too!

Yeah, that sort of cultural reflection sounds really interesting. I've heard it described as desireable lots of times, but it seems in our emergency / resource-strapped culture it's pretty easy to just keep on deferring oppression workshops, and/or for them to be ill-attended or esoteric when they actually take place. Would/should we prioritise them above a local action?

I guess to answer that you've got to have a position on how essential it is for us to achieve that kind of reculturing. Perhaps we could remain repressed, authority-loving bouregouis subjects and still meet our demands? It didn't seem that big a problem in the opening months until and during April, but we didn't have such a big local scene then, and I guess our earliest members probably tended to be more radical.

Whatever the details, it makes me think we'd benefit from a more intentional approach to culture: at the moment most of it seems to be a sort of by-product of other areas of emphasis (including regen), but your account (and others) makes me think it's pretty crucial, especially when (as ever) thinking of our April high water-mark. We can't just hope something emerges that makes people feel happy and empowered, we have to actually create conditions that encourage this.

As a sort of side-note, I guess the Milgram experiment is a pretty pertinent point of reference

I also am glad to have come across this conversation, which is raising the right kinds of issues. I have 45 years of street level community organising experience in Peckham, SE London. Spent much of that time pondering on the issues raised in this exchange and been involved in many sub journeys around the issues. My latest street level role is coordinator of active citizens group Peckham Vision - http://www.peckhamvision.org , social media @peckhamvision (please follow us). I have spent many years studying in action the dynamics of street level organising and how to interact effectively with the institutions and the corporate world. Please see my thoughts on this in these two links:

Youtube interview - http://goo.gl/Fs6f73

My published paper - https://bit.ly/2yIoS7b

I have been pleased at the emergence of XR groups organised by borough in London, and assume and hope that is happening also in other parts of the country. Teaming up the newly attracted energy of XR in local areas with the existing widespread thousands of activists already working on local community issues is a key to developing effective sustainable community structures. We are doing this in the London borough of Southwark through the Southwark Planning Network (SPN) which brings together activist groups on planning across the borough. We are working with XR Southwark on the issues the climate emergency and now the public health emergency raise for planning and redevelopment issues, that many of us are already grappling with as an, as yet unacknowledged, emergency.

That is happening in Lewes too Eileen. XR Lewes works with Transition Town Lewes, Plastic Free Lewes, Sustrans, Divest East Sussex and Lewes District Council among others. We had a big joint event planned for this summer which had to be cancelled sadly. We're hoping to put it on one day.

That's good to know that the linking of networks is happening in other places as well. This must be a stronger part of the new normal.

Hey Eileen - thanks so much for this!
I really love your energy/matter point - I think it has loads of general relevance, and to XR still more so. This sort of conceptual agility seems key to understanding our dyanmism, strengths and weakness: I think it's easy on the UKS teams (especially for those having spent a year or more building 'matter' structures) to think only or primarily in these kinds of concrete terms, to the likely detriment of our local (i.e. entire) membership which lives as much in terms of fluid energy.
I guess something that this and your paper ('s abstract - I'm planning to read it when I have time today or tomorrow - looks really helpful!) begs as a question is where and how to rebalance or reconcile the energy/matter or (related but presumably distinct) horizontal/vertical tradeoffs. Do we accept that UKS needs to walk and talk like an institution to be most effective, complete with a clear verticality? Should local groups admit any verticality? Should UKS and 'local' even be treated as separate entities?

In any case, it's great to hear about that kind of community cooperation. Not without its own complexities, of course, but it seems a crucial part of maintaining/regaining an understanding that we aren't disrupting the public, but that we are the public; among so many other benefits!

Thanks Douglas. I know the feeling about busy periods so that's fine. I am in an extended one myself! I followed up because I seemed to have missed the boat at the time as you had replied to all the other responses. I really wanted to make a link as I'd like to be connected to XR emerging thinking about the way XR's special nature works at local level with all the community actions there are already there. Huge potential but it won't be realised well enough without thought and reflection. I just ask that you link me in when this point comes up. And if and when you get time to read my paper I'd be glad to hear your thoughts on how it might help to think through some of XR's issues. Thanks.

My personal email is changing in the next couple of months and now needs to be changed on this site as at some point I will not get messages in my inbox. I don't know how to do that so I will give here Peckham Vision's email address - [email protected] - which will still get to me so ask if you would email me as well on that when you are ready to make a connection on this site .

 I think xr could lead a transitional action. do'able in or out of lockdown. The concept is that "climate INCOME" tax is a critical part (BEST? ) of how we transition and subsidising fossil fuels is the  worst (WORST? ) of the fiscal directives out there (worse than banks conceptually). By withholding our proportion of tax that goes to fossil fuel subsidies and starting a voluntary climate income fund which we try to donate to government (maybe at each local level ), we cause PR by both withholding (eg. news articles ) and by donating (eg. event presenting funds ) whilst leading by example and demonstrating this willingness. The undertone is everyone becomes more familiar with "climate income" See: 

https://citizensclimatelobby.uk and the end of this video 

https://www.ted.com/talks/james_hansen_why_i_must_speak_out_about_climate_change/up-next?language=en

What do you think?

Regards, Adi

Sounds cool! I'll admit, I'm no tax laywer, so I find it hard to evaluate that side of things. I guess my main concerns would be that from a movement/momentum-building perspective, it might further confuse our collective understanding of action strategy: at one point we had a very clear focus that change happens on streets, and that all else was in support of concentrating on this pressure point. My impression is we've diffused from this a bit, with many good results but perhaps also a deeper of loss of identity or clarity, to the extent that there (rumour has it) entire local groups that don't believe in taking direct action(!).
My other concern would be PR - there'd be a risk of being painted as 'privileged tax-dodgers'. It'd need really sensitive management (I can imagine certain tabloids would do everything to get a photo of a rebel with a Starbucks coffee or an iphone, or a scoop that they had tutored kids or something) but I'm sure this could be done.

I think in both cases the main factor would just be timing. Pre-October I think this would have been great; as is I'd see this working best after we've got a less tendentious public narrative. Hopefully that won't be too long!
In any case, I think it's already in the works! https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/extinction-rebellion-plan-to-withhold-taxes-czg0f5d60

Hi. Thanks for reply. Yes I think this tax refusal on link you sent - at a time when NHS etc needs funds and recession could be perceived wrong and give xr bad press. To withhold only the proportion which is used to subsidise fossil fuels is micro and so wouldn't damage government coffers or individual landlords but would make a point and show government how redistributing resources ought to happen. Still, it's underway now so maybe next time...

I like the idea but .....when XR's main strategy is expecting the government to react to its

demands and get on with sorting out the CEE the Gov will need funds to do it. Its possibly also a privileged action (for self employed people ) as most working , tax paying, people have their tax deducted by HMRC via PAYE before they have a chance to even consider not paying it.

Good point about PAYE. Maybe it'd have to come our if council tax, then almost indiscriminate.

Sorry to be rather late to this discussion, but thank you for the article and to everybody for the comments.

My main point will be 'Doing what is necessary'.

1. We should be far less concerned about public reaction to our actions and once we decide on an action, we need to press it to its maximum.

Example: The protest on Parliament Sq, masked and at 4m apart, but still being arrested for no apparent reason. XR is too worried about articles in the papers accusing us of spreading Covid and similar nonsense. All the recent demos are now showing just how responsible our approach was and the contrast regarding damage and violence both at the BLM and the latest unfocused anti BLM demos is enormous. But also a wasted opportunity.

We needed to have defied the authorities and repeat exactly the same dome every Saturday right up to now and into the future. That would have beautifully demonstrated and contrasted our thoughtful approach against the largely disorganised chaos and lack of preparations of the others, improving again our public image and thus recruiting members and attracting finance.

We are unlikely to make the necessary impact by occasional distributed protest around the country. If we cant mount a mass protest, then we should be organising repeated protests regardless of the police reaction to it. Fridays for Future comes to mind.

2. We should do what is necessary and also STOP doing what is not necessary.
That, in my view is the main cause of the exhaustion you speak of and also of member disengagement.
Glaring example of that is this displacement activity (in my view for activities sake) of the major effort and destruction of changing our software systems. I wish nobody ever thought of Mattermost. I don't see the numbers, but it appears pretty inactive in comparison to what we had before. In any case, I find it less user friendly, less informative, most messages are people just joining and leaving some of the hundreds of silos created on it.

Our obsession with secrecy is misplaced. I am sure the police have informers in the inside of most of our groups and are probably better informed of our plans than most of us, ordinary members.

Similarly, I think we must have surely reached peak documentation - another XR obsession. Procedures, documents, presentations etc are being for ever invented, modified, updated, improve - as if that made any measurable difference to our final goals.
We need to keep reminding ourselves that all previous movements on which we model ourselves have not had even 1% of the documentation and administration we seem to generate - and still managed to achieve their goals.
Please let stop this avalanche of displacement activities, most of which stop us doing what is necessary.

3. My final point is on leadership and consultations.
I have noticed that XR now seems to be lead and controlled by mall cliques of mutually supportive officers, who allow discussions and ideas to come through mainly only when they agree with them. I have experienced that first hand, but see it happening everywhere I look within XR.
All the consultation I have been involved in and seen happening are highly constrained and manipulated to ensure that ideas not in agreement with the current local leadership are either not discussed at all, dismissed at an early stage or just left out of the summary.
The PA system is almost designed to support group think and exclude new ideas that may require fair amount of explanation and discussion before they are properly understood.
We need something else in addition.

I suggest that for all future consultations, art from the formal distributed methodology you also explicitly encourage the membership to submit specific proposals, bypassing the normal process, commit yourself to emailing the membership with such proposals and then run a second wave of consultation, including such new ideas.

Or maybe there is a better way of bypassing the XR hierarchy, but a short cut of some kind needs to be found.

I think that will do for now
Love and Rage
Paul

I agree with some of your comments Paul but regarding Mattermost and the UK Hub the reason you don't find much going on there is that many people are not properly aware of it yet. My local group and another nearby are only just starting to get tech champions sorted out and to roll it out to all the group. At present there's no point in me putting much in our town square as there are not many people using it. Give it 2 or 3 weeks and ours will be quite busy I hope. These things take time.

I like the idea of a regular repeat action.. It'll build and people will join from all over country if its, regular enough. Along the same lines, there could be an ongoing action. Eg. Walk around coast of Britain continuously (or more radical version like in middle of motorway central reservation or less radical.. just town to town plan of a crowd continuously walking/campaigning ramble/hike.. ongoing and Web monitored)

We have abandoned a functional system (Basecamp) for an unproven system, which I for one find less intuitive, more spam ridden, much more difficult to navigate and find documents/ information on - and at the same time losing hundreds of members. So far over 6 months wasted on it for zero gain and great losses. My prediction is it will never be as popular or useful as Basecamp and that means the loss of activists will be permanent. What a disaster!
We should be working on what is necessary, not on what maybe good to have.

Yes, submitted some proposals a few days ago

Hope it makes some difference