An Interesting Presentation on Future Employment Issues
This presentation by the great video blogger GCPGrey highlights a problem which we can already see to some extent and how it is set to grow throughout all levels of society. Then what?
I have already written about National associates of mine whinging about dole bludgers and single mums having endless children to stay on benefit. Yawn, heard it all before!
The plain fact is that there won't be enough jobs for everyone. That is pretty much the case already at the unskilled end. This is inevitable and something we have to plan for now.
See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU&feature=share
Julian Warren Mon 25 Aug 2014 4:41AM
I read Loveday Kingsford's commentary with interest. Particularly the critique of the commentator. GCPGrey is American teacher residing in the UK and has a great talent for explaining things in a humorous and very quick way. This was the longest and most detailed of his presentation so far - but it was only meant to be food for thought. Check out his explanation of MMP for instance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT0I-sdoSXU
I guess you either like him or you don't.

Colin England Mon 25 Aug 2014 5:01AM
and the fact that “too much land is owned by too few people” has been the root of all evil for All of recorded history.
FTFY

Colin England Mon 25 Aug 2014 5:08AM
Housing is artificially scarce because I like not having someone else in my house while I’m gone.
That's got nothing to do with the scarcity of housing. We can build enough residences to house everyone but instead we leave it to the 'market' which chases profit instead of the best outcomes for society.
He likes sharing, but have someone else share his blanket, and he’ll collapse. “ownership” seems like something ingrained into the human mind.
Well it's not actually. It's trained into people and it can be trained out of them as well.
Sharing everything isn’t really possible.
Good job nobody's suggesting that then.
Even in hunter-gatherer tribal societies, jobs were the natural state.
Being 'employed' by someone else to make them richer is most definitely not a natural state.
It’s in the ground, where there are tons of it that mine owners are sitting on because it’s more profitable to wait for the price to go up to start mining.
The mine owners are probably doing that (just one of the reasons that private ownership of the communities resources is bad) but there's still an actual scarcity of resources.
Loveday Kingsford Mon 25 Aug 2014 6:15AM
"What is needed is a revolution in the educational sector, so we can start teaching young people how to build a creative, healthy and balanced life. We need to practice proper thinking"
There is at least one Intermediate school in Auckland which has a Thinking Based Learning Programme.
http://www.bis.school.nz/wordpress/?page_id=53
"I guess you either like him or you don’t." ( GCPGrey)
Yes, that's probably so. The style doesn't appeal.
Poll Created Mon 25 Aug 2014 8:04AM
Co-operatives Closed Wed 24 Sep 2014 7:09PM
For fifty years or more cooperative systems have been growing steadily, some very successfully.
More housing, businesses, educational facilities, retirement villages etc. could be established on the co-operative principle.
http://www.mondragon-corporation.com/eng/
http://newint.org/features/2012/07/01/co-operatives-international-year/
http://www.thetake.org/index.cfm?page_name=synopsis
http://www.otakaro.org.nz/OtakaroFiles/Peterborough/Peterborough.html
http://nz.coop/understanding-co-ops/research-reports/top-40/
http://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/08/15/how-americas-largest-worker-owned-co-op-lifts-people-out-poverty
I propose that IMP and its future parliamentary representatives promote open discussion and reference existing working co-operatives such as Mondragon as well as working towards legislation which would ease and promote the establishment of such co-operatives in New Zealand.
Results
Results | Option | % of points | Voters | |
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Agree | 81.8% | 18 |
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Abstain | 9.1% | 2 |
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Disagree | 9.1% | 2 |
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|
Block | 0.0% | 0 | ||
Undecided | 0% | 591 |
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22 of 613 people have participated (3%)
William Asiata
Mon 25 Aug 2014 8:10AM
Whatever this is I agree. Let's encourage a culture of cooperative development.
I am currently using the Cooperative bank and very happy.
William Asiata
Mon 25 Aug 2014 8:11AM
Whatever this is I agree. Let's encourage a culture of cooperative development where people can openlychoose where to invest their energies and cooperatively share the full rewards.
I am currently using the Cooperative bank and very happy.
William Asiata
Mon 25 Aug 2014 8:12AM
Whatever this is I agree. Let's encourage a culture of cooperative development where people can openly choose where to invest their energies and cooperatively share the full rewards.
I am currently using the Cooperative bank and very happy.
Andrew Robinson
Mon 25 Aug 2014 8:37AM
Cooperatives can't be the full answer to this problem. Small cooperatives are potentially as replaceable as individuals, unless they go 'Amish' and opt out of the technological developments that render their members less employable.

Phil Caton
Mon 25 Aug 2014 9:07AM
Co-ops fit well with the population size of New Zealand and appear to prevent take-overs and profits going off-shore - very successful co-ops include Fonterra (ex Dairy Board) and Foodstuffs (New World, Four Square, Pak 'n' Save stores).

pilotfever
Mon 25 Aug 2014 9:12AM
Let's not forget Fonterra, a producers cooperative. New Zealand could be run as a cooperative sustainable living retreat and a cooperative could encompass farm automation and IoT and digital currency, robotics, in fact this was my RealWorld MATE idea
Jim Bennett
Mon 25 Aug 2014 10:07AM
Totally support. Commercial legislation needs to be changed to facilitate coops. I used to introduce my year 12 economics students to the Mondragon example. Concept has ability to intertwine social justice and responsible environmental behaviour
Ross Scholes
Mon 25 Aug 2014 10:48AM
Yes, but why await polico-enablementisation. Better check out the doco: "The Next American Revolution" (2013) - Lecturer Gar Alperovitz nails it: outlining the rise of bottom-up strategies -- eg. worker coops (in U.S).
http://youtu.be/rOHdkkVEOoE
Alan Bainbridge
Tue 26 Aug 2014 6:10AM
Yes, we need to have a framework available so co-ops and other social enterprises can flourish.

Colin England
Tue 26 Aug 2014 9:07AM
Cooperatives are a fairer system of employment and generally get a better result than the top down dictatorial model that most businesses
Hugo Kappes
Thu 28 Aug 2014 3:06AM
How does this proposal address the issue of job replacement by mechanization and the resulting inequity in wealth distribution ?

Colin Davies
Fri 29 Aug 2014 6:59AM
I need more time to understand the issues.

Jp Willam Perry
Sun 31 Aug 2014 9:42AM
yep

Nathan Surendran
Sat 13 Sep 2014 12:06PM
Definitely agree that co-ops should be encouraged and publicly discussed. bit.ly/XcbQtC
Raising public awareness of alternatives to the current economic dogma is important.
Need to avoid weak sustainability thinking though: bit.ly/1n8mTLc
Andrew Robinson Mon 25 Aug 2014 8:21AM
The answer is a 'Basic Income' provided to everyone in society from cradle to grave. Enough for the bare necessities of life and as a right of citizenship. There are no dole bludgers if everyone gets it and there is much less incentive for corporations to put people out of work if they're going to be paying for them anyway ...
Productivity per worker has skyrocketed over the last 40 years with increasing automation, but wages have been held down. The benefits have all accrued to those who own the means of production and to a lesser extent to the dwindling part of the population that have skills that haven't been automated, yet ...
Yes, a minority will abuse it. But it would only be a minority, and better a bit of abuse than ever increasing unemployment and widening wealth inequality.
Loveday Kingsford Mon 25 Aug 2014 9:59PM
"Andrew Robinson Cooperatives can't be the full answer to this problem. Small cooperatives are potentially as replaceable as individuals, unless they go 'Amish' and opt out of the technological developments that render their members less employable."
It has been pointed out that"Jobs are not a natural state of affairs." In NZ a considerable percentage of the earning population has always been self employed but as far back as I can remember no government has given these workers the time of day. Co-operatives would never be the whole answer but public acknowledgement and emphasis on this possibility would be invaluable. Going"Amish" is a matter of personal preference but those who do lessen the crush for employment and this option does not necessarily preclude an individual from technological awareness or even innovation.

The Working Poor Class Tue 26 Aug 2014 4:44AM
What. A. Depressing. Video.
Ahmad Hammadeh Tue 26 Aug 2014 6:19AM
Well wouldn't it be more beneficial for NZ to focus on the development of this highly intelligent tech, your always going to need people to develop and build the technology thats replacing jobs; thus creating jobs to balance things out; of course the amount of jobs created wont be equivalent to those lost, but its a start.
Alan Bainbridge Tue 26 Aug 2014 6:27AM
"Even hunter gatherers had jobs" not true. They had livelihoods, or a means of surviving, which is very different from the moneyed economy of today. Interestingly, it was the movement away from hunter gathering which sparked many of the problems we have today. Hunter gatherers had no surplus, nor could the product of their labour be stored. so they could not be parasitised by an overclass of monarchs, warlords or the like. Today our productive economy has to carry a massive burden of unproductive sectors and as this burden increases, so must growth - until we finally destroy the entire ecosystem. Come on smart people, let's find real solutions.

Colin England Tue 26 Aug 2014 9:09AM
What. A. Depressing. Video.
Nope, a massively optimistic one. We can eliminate poverty and provide a good living standard without working the majority of people to death as we do now.
Julian Warren Tue 26 Aug 2014 8:54PM
Ahmad, even if the presentation did not suggest that tech jobs were at risk too, do you honestly think we can compete at tech with the millions in India's silicon valley or the billions in China? Realistically, no, we can't. We have to look further forward than that.
There has been an obsession with the tech sector as our salvation for years and whilst there may be some novelty like Xero and the 3D Sports Visualisation, in the great scheme of things that's not going to be how NZ makes a living.

The Working Poor Class Thu 28 Aug 2014 6:59AM
@hugokappes the proposal suggests how the unemployed by mechanization and the advancements of technology can survive by living off the land. It addresses the issue by resorting back to the days of bartaring within a small village/ in this case. Commune. The video link in this post by @julianwarren states that humans are the new horses..masses of unemployment due to mechanization/hi tech is inevitable.
Hugo Kappes Thu 28 Aug 2014 11:24AM
Dont think I want to live in a commune, dont think most of the population are interested in living in a commune either, and i dont think that we should be like reservation Indians while the world of robots continues on around us, is this seriously the best we can come up with ? To withdraw into communes and shut out the progress of the outside world, not that that could ever happen anyhow someone would come knocking on the door wanting payment for something, then what do we do ? pay them in carrots ?? The whole thing is that if we dont look at this now and set in place a guideline for progress then most people will get left behind just surplus to requirements, I suppose we could fuel the machines with the surplus unnecessary humans ??
Fred Look Fri 29 Aug 2014 8:56PM
we could work two days a week and spend the other five growing yummy food and taking nana to the beach..... I am serious
Stephen Bryson Sat 20 Sep 2014 10:44PM
From Fred above:
we could work two days a week and spend the other five growing yummy food and taking nana to the beach….. I am serious
Yes I agree, that's what I have been doing for the last 20 years. Well figuratively so to speak and I have been out in the provinces and doing it on basically no days work per week.
After last night's drubbing maybe that is at least some small ray of hope for any despondency and anyone thinking, now what and where to next?
Also I can offer an idea that may dissipate many of our concerns about future employment opportunity in NZ. The idea is simply about how to reduce the cost of living in NZ so that we do not need to find so many $$$ and therefore do not need to find so much work.
This is my premise:
A large part of the cost of living in NZ today is the cost of housing. This is either as the cost of home ownership or the cost of rental accommodation.
Therefore if we can find some way to really smash the cost of housing we should be able to break free from the current economic model which requires us to dedicate so much of our life to work (or to seeking work!).
So what is the idea?
It is a little bit technical to easily describe with clarity so I will take a break here and hope to come back to it later.
Colin England · Mon 25 Aug 2014 3:31AM
Interesting video and, yeah, we definitely have to think about how our society evolves over the next few decades. Having all the wealth owned by the few obviously isn't the answer as we found out a few centuries ago,
Time for something new.